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Next step: decentralizing encrypted group calls [0] [0]: https://2021.commcon.xyz/talks/extending-matrix-s-e2ee-calls-to-multiparty https://2021.commcon.xyz/ta

Next step: decentralizing encrypted group calls [0] [0]: https://2021.commcon.xyz/talks/extending-matrix-s-e2ee-calls-to-multiparty https://2021.commcon.xyz/talks/extending-matrix-s-e2ee-calls...

a-dub 5y ago
decentralization would be interesting for the purposes of keeping operating costs down in some cases. can imagine some sort of mode for just a few participants on mobile networks only where all the high bandwidth stuff remains fully peer to peer.
- pthatcherg 5y ago
  Author here. We are considering making 2-person group calls switch to p2p under the hood. I don't know if that that will ever expand to 3 or more.
  - a-dub 5y ago
    cool! i suppose even with limited metadata with e2ee, you could probably do a quick study to get a sense for how many calls could switch (how many are 2 party, how many aren't behind nats, etc) and maybe even get a sense for how much could be saved in operation costs. interesting privacy considerations now that i think of it though. p2p would trivially leak the existence of a call between two devices, but i suppose that given the right taps it would be possible to correlate through server streams based on timing data anyhow.
    - codethief 5y ago
      > but i suppose that given the right taps it would be possible to correlate through server streams based on timing data anyhow Probably, but it'd be much harder I suppose.
  - Arathorn 5y ago
    pthatcherg: this is super cool; on the Matrix side we hadn't spotted that you'd written your own SFU. Would you have any objection to us trying to use it as a decentralised Matrix SFU, as per the design in https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/matthew/group-voip/proposals/3401-group-voip.md https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/matthew/group-...? (Obviously we'd do so within the constraints of AGPLv3).
    - pthatcherg 5y ago
      It's open source. No objection from me.

Next step: decentralizing encrypted group calls [0] [0]: https://2021.commcon.xyz/talks/extending-matrix-s-e2ee-calls-to-multiparty https://2021.commcon.xyz/talks/extending-matrix-s-e2ee-calls...

a-dub 5y ago

decentralization would be interesting for the purposes of keeping operating costs down in some cases. can imagine some sort of mode for just a few participants on mobile networks only where all the high bandwidth stuff remains fully peer to peer.

pthatcherg 5y ago
Author here. We are considering making 2-person group calls switch to p2p under the hood. I don't know if that that will ever expand to 3 or more.
- a-dub 5y ago
  cool! i suppose even with limited metadata with e2ee, you could probably do a quick study to get a sense for how many calls could switch (how many are 2 party, how many aren't behind nats, etc) and maybe even get a sense for how much could be saved in operation costs. interesting privacy considerations now that i think of it though. p2p would trivially leak the existence of a call between two devices, but i suppose that given the right taps it would be possible to correlate through server streams based on timing data anyhow.
  - codethief 5y ago
    > but i suppose that given the right taps it would be possible to correlate through server streams based on timing data anyhow Probably, but it'd be much harder I suppose.
- Arathorn 5y ago
  pthatcherg: this is super cool; on the Matrix side we hadn't spotted that you'd written your own SFU. Would you have any objection to us trying to use it as a decentralised Matrix SFU, as per the design in https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/matthew/group-voip/proposals/3401-group-voip.md https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/matthew/group-...? (Obviously we'd do so within the constraints of AGPLv3).
  - pthatcherg 5y ago
    It's open source. No objection from me.