5 ms·

'We won and we didn't notice' - a conversation with Jeremy Allison of Samba

65 points by rabelaisian 15y ago

kenjackson 15y ago
For context: "In twenty years everything has become Linux. I have a music system that is entirely Linux-based. I have a video streaming and TV watching system that is entirely Linux-based. I wouldn't be surprised if every flat screen television I have is also Linux-based. The laptop and the desktop my wife uses to do her online banking and email is Linux. My phone is Linux, and my son's tablet PC is Linux..." So his family uses Linux and they've apparently won. That's like Steve Ballmer saying his kid use Zune so they won the MP3 wars. With that said Linux has become the most popular Unix variant by a large margin -- but who hasn't noticed? It's been years in the making, well telegraphed, with thousands of articles written about it.
- cookiecaper 15y ago
  I believe his point is that Linux has deeply pervaded practically everything except end-user PCs, and that we should recognize that this is really a big success even if it's not the holy grail of the "Linux desktop". Not quite like Steve Ballmer saying Windows won because his kid uses a Zune. Linux will be in almost every advanced home appliance and/or consumer electronic you buy, whether you know it or not; Windows is on a very small handful of embedded devices manufactured by Microsoft (with the exception of Windows mobile OSes and of course, PCs).
  - marvin 15y ago
    You're forgetting most of the enterprise software market and a significant portion (15%) of all web servers in the world. Why do we always have to be so adversarial when it comes to choice of software? The Microsoft stack works great in the areas where is is popular, and the .NET library and the related development tools are excellent.
    - cookiecaper 15y ago
      I'm not forgetting those, they just aren't relevant to the discussion. "deeply pervade" != "exclusive option"
- true_religion 15y ago
  He's one of the guys who was around when linux was still someones graduate studies project. He sees Linux as the underdog. For the underdog, merely becoming part of the mass market plurality is a Victory. For a billion dollar company like Microsoft getting a new product pushed out by major manufacturers is simply par for course.
- thatjoshguy 15y ago
  But I think you would be surprised by the amount of consumer electronic devices that run linux. My Toshiba TV runs linux, and it doesn't have a DVR or anything like that. None of those fancy widgets and internet connectivity. Just a plain up TV running linux.
  - wanorris 15y ago
    Can you get at the Linux on devices like this? Could you, say, install a MythTV front end, or run Doom on it? Just curious.
  - rwmj 15y ago
    [It's not that I don't believe you, just curious] .. how do you know it runs Linux?
    - __david__ 15y ago
      Well, I can't speak for the parent, but my Panasonic Viera TV had a little note in the on-screen menu about software licenses with a URL (and also the complete text of the GPL). I downloaded it and it included a Linux kernel. I have no idea which part runs Linux (the whole thing, or just the part that reads jpegs off of the SD cards) or if there is any good way to get a shell...
    - jbuzbee 15y ago
      As for me, a nmap scan of my Sony TV shows that it runs a Linux kernel in the 2.6.9 - 2.6.28 range. It's likely just used for the Internet functionality and perhaps for the on-screen UI. Port 12345 is open and responds to telnet, but it's password protected and I've never been able to determine what the password would be.
- cycojesus 15y ago
  We won because said Steve Ballmer has/would have to go out of his way just to avoid having a Linux kernel somewhere in his house. Now with that hyperbole pushed there it'd be interesting to see how true this is. Furnishing a full rich house with common appliances how likely are you to have one or more Linux kernel? FOSS in general?
- e40 15y ago
  Panasonic's TVs have FreeBSD in them because some high-up execs are afraid of the GPL after some other device maker was sued over some GPL violation. Just a bit of trivia.
  - __david__ 15y ago
    My Panasonic TV runs Linux and has the GPL available from an on screen menu.
    - e40 15y ago
      I don't remember when they switched. Perhaps a year ago, maybe more. The development models we're working with all have FreeBSD.
- gaius 15y ago
  With that said Linux has become the most popular Unix variant by a large margin Nah, OSX is Unix remember.
  - mpyne 15y ago
    Macs don't outnumber embedded devices though.
    - seanl 15y ago
      No, but iOS is a derivation of OS X, so you have to take all the iDevices into account too. Probably Linux still has the numbers.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        Android devices alone are enough to more than offset all iOS devices. http://mashable.com/2011/01/31/android-most-popular-platform/ http://mashable.com/2011/01/31/android-most-popular-platform... Even were that not the case, the consumer handheld market is dwarfed by the rest of the embedded market.
        nirvana 15y ago
        You're linking to a chart that only talks about handsets when it comes to iOS, and ignores the iPod touch and the iPad. It was written in January and a good chunk of the iOS devices sold have been sold since. According to Apple, at the time of WWDC, iOS was the largest mobile operating system, across all devices (using that standard since you said "all iOS devices") with approximately %44 market share to androids %35 market share. Of course it is difficult to know for sure, because so many sources of stats only count phones (ignoring the iPad and iPod touch) and the stats for android are not very clear either with many manufacturers shipping large quantities of android tablets that have not, apparently, been selling thru to customers.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
- cabalamat 15y ago
  > Linux has become the most popular Unix variant by a large margin Really? I thought that was OS X / iOS.
pnathan 15y ago
At my company, I develop on a Linux system for a Linux system, using Linux servers to store source code. Things are getting more and more 'penguin' all the time. :-)
shithead 15y ago
Note to Microsoft PR flacks: it now behooves you to rail against the oppressive Linux monoculture. Also, there must be quite a few underdog skins hanging in your walls, try donning one of them for greater effect. (But do not kill whatever seed you now have of what will be the Microsoft Linux release of 2016/17.)
reefab 15y ago
"Where once Samba and Apache sold Linux to the world they are now just part of the plumbing." What I'm taking away from this article is that indeed Linux has became plumbing. Long gone are the glamorous times when Linux and the FOSS movement in general were the underdog and apparently the price for victory is becoming a commodity.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Why is being a commodity a "price"? Even if we are applying the (obsolete) ideals of commercial success, nearly every company I know of would love to be a commodity.
  - reefab 15y ago
    I didn't mean it that way, Linux did become ubiquitous but not in the way some people (including me) hoped it would. I mostly meant that despite being one of cornerstone of the internet, it's far from the glamorous future some of us hoped for.
pyre 15y ago
> ... developer Jeremy Allison met up with Richard > Hillesley. Here, Richard Allison's description of > the ... Richard Allison? Wat?
pseudonym 15y ago
The all one one page version: http://www.h-online.com/open/features/We-won-and-we-didn-t-notice-a-conversation-with-Jeremy-Allison-of-Samba-1334992.html?view=print http://www.h-online.com/open/features/We-won-and-we-didn-t-n...

65 points by rabelaisian 15y ago

For context: "In twenty years everything has become Linux. I have a music system that is entirely Linux-based. I have a video streaming and TV watching system that is entirely Linux-based. I wouldn't be surprised if every flat screen television I have is also Linux-based. The laptop and the desktop my wife uses to do her online banking and email is Linux. My phone is Linux, and my son's tablet PC is Linux..." So his family uses Linux and they've apparently won. That's like Steve Ballmer saying his kid use Zune so they won the MP3 wars. With that said Linux has become the most popular Unix variant by a large margin -- but who hasn't noticed? It's been years in the making, well telegraphed, with thousands of articles written about it.

cookiecaper 15y ago
I believe his point is that Linux has deeply pervaded practically everything except end-user PCs, and that we should recognize that this is really a big success even if it's not the holy grail of the "Linux desktop". Not quite like Steve Ballmer saying Windows won because his kid uses a Zune. Linux will be in almost every advanced home appliance and/or consumer electronic you buy, whether you know it or not; Windows is on a very small handful of embedded devices manufactured by Microsoft (with the exception of Windows mobile OSes and of course, PCs).
- marvin 15y ago
  You're forgetting most of the enterprise software market and a significant portion (15%) of all web servers in the world. Why do we always have to be so adversarial when it comes to choice of software? The Microsoft stack works great in the areas where is is popular, and the .NET library and the related development tools are excellent.
  - cookiecaper 15y ago
    I'm not forgetting those, they just aren't relevant to the discussion. "deeply pervade" != "exclusive option"
true_religion 15y ago
He's one of the guys who was around when linux was still someones graduate studies project. He sees Linux as the underdog. For the underdog, merely becoming part of the mass market plurality is a Victory. For a billion dollar company like Microsoft getting a new product pushed out by major manufacturers is simply par for course.
thatjoshguy 15y ago
But I think you would be surprised by the amount of consumer electronic devices that run linux. My Toshiba TV runs linux, and it doesn't have a DVR or anything like that. None of those fancy widgets and internet connectivity. Just a plain up TV running linux.
- wanorris 15y ago
  Can you get at the Linux on devices like this? Could you, say, install a MythTV front end, or run Doom on it? Just curious.
- rwmj 15y ago
  [It's not that I don't believe you, just curious] .. how do you know it runs Linux?
  - __david__ 15y ago
    Well, I can't speak for the parent, but my Panasonic Viera TV had a little note in the on-screen menu about software licenses with a URL (and also the complete text of the GPL). I downloaded it and it included a Linux kernel. I have no idea which part runs Linux (the whole thing, or just the part that reads jpegs off of the SD cards) or if there is any good way to get a shell...
  - jbuzbee 15y ago
    As for me, a nmap scan of my Sony TV shows that it runs a Linux kernel in the 2.6.9 - 2.6.28 range. It's likely just used for the Internet functionality and perhaps for the on-screen UI. Port 12345 is open and responds to telnet, but it's password protected and I've never been able to determine what the password would be.
cycojesus 15y ago
We won because said Steve Ballmer has/would have to go out of his way just to avoid having a Linux kernel somewhere in his house. Now with that hyperbole pushed there it'd be interesting to see how true this is. Furnishing a full rich house with common appliances how likely are you to have one or more Linux kernel? FOSS in general?
e40 15y ago
Panasonic's TVs have FreeBSD in them because some high-up execs are afraid of the GPL after some other device maker was sued over some GPL violation. Just a bit of trivia.
- __david__ 15y ago
  My Panasonic TV runs Linux and has the GPL available from an on screen menu.
  - e40 15y ago
    I don't remember when they switched. Perhaps a year ago, maybe more. The development models we're working with all have FreeBSD.
gaius 15y ago
With that said Linux has become the most popular Unix variant by a large margin Nah, OSX is Unix remember.
- mpyne 15y ago
  Macs don't outnumber embedded devices though.
  - seanl 15y ago
    No, but iOS is a derivation of OS X, so you have to take all the iDevices into account too. Probably Linux still has the numbers.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      Android devices alone are enough to more than offset all iOS devices. http://mashable.com/2011/01/31/android-most-popular-platform/ http://mashable.com/2011/01/31/android-most-popular-platform... Even were that not the case, the consumer handheld market is dwarfed by the rest of the embedded market.
      - nirvana 15y ago
        You're linking to a chart that only talks about handsets when it comes to iOS, and ignores the iPod touch and the iPad. It was written in January and a good chunk of the iOS devices sold have been sold since. According to Apple, at the time of WWDC, iOS was the largest mobile operating system, across all devices (using that standard since you said "all iOS devices") with approximately %44 market share to androids %35 market share. Of course it is difficult to know for sure, because so many sources of stats only count phones (ignoring the iPad and iPod touch) and the stats for android are not very clear either with many manufacturers shipping large quantities of android tablets that have not, apparently, been selling thru to customers.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
cabalamat 15y ago
> Linux has become the most popular Unix variant by a large margin Really? I thought that was OS X / iOS.

pnathan 15y ago

At my company, I develop on a Linux system for a Linux system, using Linux servers to store source code. Things are getting more and more 'penguin' all the time. :-)

shithead 15y ago

Note to Microsoft PR flacks: it now behooves you to rail against the oppressive Linux monoculture. Also, there must be quite a few underdog skins hanging in your walls, try donning one of them for greater effect. (But do not kill whatever seed you now have of what will be the Microsoft Linux release of 2016/17.)

reefab 15y ago

"Where once Samba and Apache sold Linux to the world they are now just part of the plumbing." What I'm taking away from this article is that indeed Linux has became plumbing. Long gone are the glamorous times when Linux and the FOSS movement in general were the underdog and apparently the price for victory is becoming a commodity.

burgerbrain 15y ago
Why is being a commodity a "price"? Even if we are applying the (obsolete) ideals of commercial success, nearly every company I know of would love to be a commodity.
- reefab 15y ago
  I didn't mean it that way, Linux did become ubiquitous but not in the way some people (including me) hoped it would. I mostly meant that despite being one of cornerstone of the internet, it's far from the glamorous future some of us hoped for.

pyre 15y ago

> ... developer Jeremy Allison met up with Richard > Hillesley. Here, Richard Allison's description of > the ... Richard Allison? Wat?

pseudonym 15y ago

The all one one page version: http://www.h-online.com/open/features/We-won-and-we-didn-t-notice-a-conversation-with-Jeremy-Allison-of-Samba-1334992.html?view=print http://www.h-online.com/open/features/We-won-and-we-didn-t-n...