5 ms·

I've been hesitant to do so. Look at the top several results from https://www.google.com/search?q=porn+accountability+app https://www.google.com/search?q=porn+

I've been hesitant to do so. Look at the top several results from https://www.google.com/search?q=porn+accountability+app https://www.google.com/search?q=porn+accountability+app for apps that don't even try to advertise as parental focused apps. If you want direct links, send me an email (you can find it in my profile).

tptacek 5y ago
For instance, "Covenant Eye" (which: holy shit, how creepy is this!) always blurs screenshots. Yours apparently does opt-in blurring. I'm interested in the detective project of figuring out what red lines your app may have crossed, just because it's interesting. But cards on the table: none of these apps should be allowed on the app store. Maybe Apple just hasn't gotten around to shutting down "Covenant Eye" yet.
- tptacek 5y ago
  "Ever Accountable", another example, only works for a small list of applications --- if you're not on their VPN, you even have to use their browser. Your application takes random screenshots and advertises that it's hard to bypass, which is kind of the opposite of what "Ever Accountable" claims.
  - camhart 5y ago
    Look at the MacOS app.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      Respectfully, no. The Mac App store is not interesting in this discussion; you can install any app your want on a Mac (not necessarily via the App Store, but that's fine for a number of very big businesses that ship Mac software). What we're interested in here is the iOS App Store, which is the only way to realistically install commercial software on an iPhone.
      - camhart 5y ago
        This entire discussion is about Mac apps. My account was frozen when I attempted to notarize a MacOS app. I have not (yet) tried to submit an iOS app.
        tptacek 5y ago
        Oh! That makes a lot more sense. Disregard my previous comment! ("Notarization" should have been my tip-off). ... why are you trying to sell this app via the Mac App Store in the first place?
        camhart 5y ago
        I'm not trying to distribute through the Mac App Store. Notarization is required for MacOS apps as of several years ago, unless you bypass gatekeeper.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    For "OurPact", the third comparable app, there's this fun review: For the “premium” level with all the controls (which frankly is the service level any responsible parent will want), you have to back each kid’s phone up to iTunes on your (parent) laptop, then erase and reinstall each one with a new OurPact-controlled OS. I'm starting to see a pattern here.
    - bmurphy1976 5y ago
      I don't have any familiarity with the other apps in this space, but I am a heavy (and happy) user of OurPact. OurPact adds a lot of parental management features (including a remote kill) which the Apple controls are desperately missing. The backup is taken at install time and it's perfectly reasonable to do so. The backup is stored local on your computer using the standard backup mechanisms, it's not uploaded to the cloud. The installation process is actually opting the device into an enterprise management profile, not a custom OS. That custom OS blurb sounds like some goofy marketing speak or misunderstanding how this process works. The management profile allows OurPact to manage the device on your behalf using the same APIs any enterprise device management vendor would use. Once the device is opted into the management profile, it's quite obvious it's under control and you have a lot of options including setting time limits on app, enabling various child protection features, preventing apps from being deleted, and most importantly choosing what apps are available and creating schedules for the device (i.e. disabling games during school hours/night). Nothing about this process hides the fact that the device is managed. There is an OurPact Jr app that can be installed which gives the owner visibility into the schedule. I highly recommend reading the reviews by upset children for the OurPact Jr app on the app store. They are hilarious. Anyway, my point is as a parent with a tech background and 3 children, OurPact has been a very useful and positive addition to our home life. They've been a good steward. They are limited in what they can do by Apple, but what they have done they have been very transparent and communicative.
      - p1necone 5y ago
        You're just teaching your kids that they can't trust you with anything. They'll probably borrow old devices from friends and keep them hidden anyway. And don't be surprised when they hide parties, alcohol etc from you, even when they might need your help. You might think you're doing something positive here - but all you're doing is ensuring that your kids will forever treat you as an adversary. Don't be surprised when they leave home after high school and never speak to you again.
- jtbayly 5y ago
  Should I, or should I not be allowed to run whatever applications I want on my phone? Should I, or should I not be forbidden from filtering the internet for myself? Meanwhile, the content I see is filtered by FB, Twitter, etc. Why should their desires rule mine on my device? Should I, or should I not be forbidden from seeking help accomplishing my own goals for online use, in particular accountability for giving up various addictions? Meanwhile, FB and Twitter are allowed to know what I view, but I'm not allowed to let anybody else know what I view. Why should they be able to hold me accountable, while I'm not allowed to seek accountability from anybody else?
  - tptacek 5y ago
    You're asking me? Ok: it should not be possible for you to install surreptitious screen recording software on an iPhone. The problem isn't that this app got blocked; it's that all the other ones (except maybe that one app that only records screenshots when you use their browser) aren't banned. But this is totally besides the point. We're not discussing what Apple's rules ought to be. We're trying to help figure out what they are. That's what the author of this app asked us to do.
    - jtbayly 5y ago
      This is what you wrote that I was responding to: "cards on the table: none of these apps should be allowed on the app store." I'm hoping you've simply not really thought this through. We can't demand that parents be held accountable for what their children do while also forbidding parents from knowing what their children are reading, watching, writing, hearing, or saying.
      - JadeNB 5y ago
        > We can't demand that parents be held accountable for what their children do while also forbidding parents from knowing what their children are reading, watching, writing, hearing, or saying. There's no reason that knowledge has to be garnered surreptitiously. (If your answer is "if it's not surreptitious, then kids will try to bypass it" … well, they will anyway.)

tptacek 5y ago

For instance, "Covenant Eye" (which: holy shit, how creepy is this!) always blurs screenshots. Yours apparently does opt-in blurring. I'm interested in the detective project of figuring out what red lines your app may have crossed, just because it's interesting. But cards on the table: none of these apps should be allowed on the app store. Maybe Apple just hasn't gotten around to shutting down "Covenant Eye" yet.

tptacek 5y ago
"Ever Accountable", another example, only works for a small list of applications --- if you're not on their VPN, you even have to use their browser. Your application takes random screenshots and advertises that it's hard to bypass, which is kind of the opposite of what "Ever Accountable" claims.
- camhart 5y ago
  Look at the MacOS app.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    Respectfully, no. The Mac App store is not interesting in this discussion; you can install any app your want on a Mac (not necessarily via the App Store, but that's fine for a number of very big businesses that ship Mac software). What we're interested in here is the iOS App Store, which is the only way to realistically install commercial software on an iPhone.
    - camhart 5y ago
      This entire discussion is about Mac apps. My account was frozen when I attempted to notarize a MacOS app. I have not (yet) tried to submit an iOS app.
      - tptacek 5y ago
        Oh! That makes a lot more sense. Disregard my previous comment! ("Notarization" should have been my tip-off). ... why are you trying to sell this app via the Mac App Store in the first place?
        camhart 5y ago
        I'm not trying to distribute through the Mac App Store. Notarization is required for MacOS apps as of several years ago, unless you bypass gatekeeper.
- tptacek 5y ago
  For "OurPact", the third comparable app, there's this fun review: For the “premium” level with all the controls (which frankly is the service level any responsible parent will want), you have to back each kid’s phone up to iTunes on your (parent) laptop, then erase and reinstall each one with a new OurPact-controlled OS. I'm starting to see a pattern here.
  - bmurphy1976 5y ago
    I don't have any familiarity with the other apps in this space, but I am a heavy (and happy) user of OurPact. OurPact adds a lot of parental management features (including a remote kill) which the Apple controls are desperately missing. The backup is taken at install time and it's perfectly reasonable to do so. The backup is stored local on your computer using the standard backup mechanisms, it's not uploaded to the cloud. The installation process is actually opting the device into an enterprise management profile, not a custom OS. That custom OS blurb sounds like some goofy marketing speak or misunderstanding how this process works. The management profile allows OurPact to manage the device on your behalf using the same APIs any enterprise device management vendor would use. Once the device is opted into the management profile, it's quite obvious it's under control and you have a lot of options including setting time limits on app, enabling various child protection features, preventing apps from being deleted, and most importantly choosing what apps are available and creating schedules for the device (i.e. disabling games during school hours/night). Nothing about this process hides the fact that the device is managed. There is an OurPact Jr app that can be installed which gives the owner visibility into the schedule. I highly recommend reading the reviews by upset children for the OurPact Jr app on the app store. They are hilarious. Anyway, my point is as a parent with a tech background and 3 children, OurPact has been a very useful and positive addition to our home life. They've been a good steward. They are limited in what they can do by Apple, but what they have done they have been very transparent and communicative.
    - p1necone 5y ago
      You're just teaching your kids that they can't trust you with anything. They'll probably borrow old devices from friends and keep them hidden anyway. And don't be surprised when they hide parties, alcohol etc from you, even when they might need your help. You might think you're doing something positive here - but all you're doing is ensuring that your kids will forever treat you as an adversary. Don't be surprised when they leave home after high school and never speak to you again.
jtbayly 5y ago
Should I, or should I not be allowed to run whatever applications I want on my phone? Should I, or should I not be forbidden from filtering the internet for myself? Meanwhile, the content I see is filtered by FB, Twitter, etc. Why should their desires rule mine on my device? Should I, or should I not be forbidden from seeking help accomplishing my own goals for online use, in particular accountability for giving up various addictions? Meanwhile, FB and Twitter are allowed to know what I view, but I'm not allowed to let anybody else know what I view. Why should they be able to hold me accountable, while I'm not allowed to seek accountability from anybody else?
- tptacek 5y ago
  You're asking me? Ok: it should not be possible for you to install surreptitious screen recording software on an iPhone. The problem isn't that this app got blocked; it's that all the other ones (except maybe that one app that only records screenshots when you use their browser) aren't banned. But this is totally besides the point. We're not discussing what Apple's rules ought to be. We're trying to help figure out what they are. That's what the author of this app asked us to do.
  - jtbayly 5y ago
    This is what you wrote that I was responding to: "cards on the table: none of these apps should be allowed on the app store." I'm hoping you've simply not really thought this through. We can't demand that parents be held accountable for what their children do while also forbidding parents from knowing what their children are reading, watching, writing, hearing, or saying.
    - JadeNB 5y ago
      > We can't demand that parents be held accountable for what their children do while also forbidding parents from knowing what their children are reading, watching, writing, hearing, or saying. There's no reason that knowledge has to be garnered surreptitiously. (If your answer is "if it's not surreptitious, then kids will try to bypass it" … well, they will anyway.)