4 ms·

I'm guessing Google VPs make ~5 mil a year, given that L8 engineers make ~1 mil a year [0] [0] levels.fyi

sombremesa 5y ago
There are huge issues with how these salaries are reported. When you include stock compensation especially: what about vesting schedules and taxes? You can leave a job (by choice or otherwise) where you worked for a year and were making "1 million a year" with less than $300k in total compensation. It feels like a little trick being played on the employees, kind of like unlimited PTO. I'm sure some people actually enjoy the full benefits of what they're promised, but I'd be surprised if that's a majority.
- romanhn 5y ago
  It's all fairly straightforward actually, as long as you're familiar with how compensation works at big companies (salary, stock, bonus, refreshers). Blind and levels.fyi have raised the transparency on comp quite a bit. $1M/year total compensation (that's annual comp, not the total four year vest) is reasonable for a L8/director-level at the tech giants. This is before tax of course, which is how literally everyone talks about compensation.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- reaperducer 5y ago
  It feels like a little trick being played on the employees It's a common trick. In the 1990's Bill Clinton famously categorized people who made $200,000 a year as "millionaires." Why? Because they "should" be able to save a million dollars within five years. People in power find it easy to play word games with other people's money.
- comp_throw7 5y ago
  Equity compensation at places like Google vests monthly with no cliff, and it's taxed as income. You get what you see on the tin.
  - sombremesa 5y ago
    > places like Google Which place aside from Google?
    - comp_throw7 5y ago
      Facebook, Amazon (mostly cash bonus first two years, but still "vests" monthly with no cliff), Uber, Lyft (every 3 months), Snapchat, etc. It's not all of them but it's an increasing number. Also, even with a 1-year cliff, for most people it'll still basically be indistinguishable from cash? Leaving (or getting fired) before you hit the 1 year mark is pretty rare, and after the first cliff it usually transitions to something like every 3 months.
      - sombremesa 5y ago
        The cliff is irrelevant, if you leave before you fully vest your pay rate does not actually match what you claim. The reason I brought up taxes (which might seem odd to people since compensation usually ignores them) is because they will significantly change the equation for various reasons. (AMT, RSUs taxed as short term gains and not long term, state tax affecting comp regardless of cost of living, etc.) Ultimately, any compensation number that rolls all of this up into one number is mostly useless for actually knowing how much money you’ll have in N years, but it is useful for comparing offers, which is fine - but then these numbers shouldn’t appear without qualification in the type of discussion where personal finance is involved. Not to mention that since this is a forum where many people are involved in startups, a 50k salary often (ok, maybe not often but I’m on 1/1) turns into several millions in a few years. Does that mean founders should claim they were making $2 mil per year? I don’t think so - but that’s the only comparison available if you use levels.fyi.
        5y ago

There are huge issues with how these salaries are reported. When you include stock compensation especially: what about vesting schedules and taxes? You can leave a job (by choice or otherwise) where you worked for a year and were making "1 million a year" with less than $300k in total compensation. It feels like a little trick being played on the employees, kind of like unlimited PTO. I'm sure some people actually enjoy the full benefits of what they're promised, but I'd be surprised if that's a majority.

romanhn 5y ago
It's all fairly straightforward actually, as long as you're familiar with how compensation works at big companies (salary, stock, bonus, refreshers). Blind and levels.fyi have raised the transparency on comp quite a bit. $1M/year total compensation (that's annual comp, not the total four year vest) is reasonable for a L8/director-level at the tech giants. This is before tax of course, which is how literally everyone talks about compensation.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
reaperducer 5y ago
It feels like a little trick being played on the employees It's a common trick. In the 1990's Bill Clinton famously categorized people who made $200,000 a year as "millionaires." Why? Because they "should" be able to save a million dollars within five years. People in power find it easy to play word games with other people's money.
comp_throw7 5y ago
Equity compensation at places like Google vests monthly with no cliff, and it's taxed as income. You get what you see on the tin.
- sombremesa 5y ago
  > places like Google Which place aside from Google?
  - comp_throw7 5y ago
    Facebook, Amazon (mostly cash bonus first two years, but still "vests" monthly with no cliff), Uber, Lyft (every 3 months), Snapchat, etc. It's not all of them but it's an increasing number. Also, even with a 1-year cliff, for most people it'll still basically be indistinguishable from cash? Leaving (or getting fired) before you hit the 1 year mark is pretty rare, and after the first cliff it usually transitions to something like every 3 months.
    - sombremesa 5y ago
      The cliff is irrelevant, if you leave before you fully vest your pay rate does not actually match what you claim. The reason I brought up taxes (which might seem odd to people since compensation usually ignores them) is because they will significantly change the equation for various reasons. (AMT, RSUs taxed as short term gains and not long term, state tax affecting comp regardless of cost of living, etc.) Ultimately, any compensation number that rolls all of this up into one number is mostly useless for actually knowing how much money you’ll have in N years, but it is useful for comparing offers, which is fine - but then these numbers shouldn’t appear without qualification in the type of discussion where personal finance is involved. Not to mention that since this is a forum where many people are involved in startups, a 50k salary often (ok, maybe not often but I’m on 1/1) turns into several millions in a few years. Does that mean founders should claim they were making $2 mil per year? I don’t think so - but that’s the only comparison available if you use levels.fyi.
      - 5y ago