4 ms·

> with no regard to the truth people here are witnessing I mean, a bunch of anecdotes are still a bunch of anecdotes. Especially on an anonymous internet forum

> with no regard to the truth people here are witnessing I mean, a bunch of anecdotes are still a bunch of anecdotes. Especially on an anonymous internet forum. > All you are doing is advancing your own political agenda from a remote location through online commenting You could say the same thing about those anecdotes you're referring to. For what it's worth there's plenty of other anecdotes to the contrary. I live in the Bay Area and SF is a fun, beautiful city except for the Tenderloin and some parts of Mission street. I'm glad the local government finally taking their heads out of the sand and doing something. Though it's a complicated issue with no easy answers and frankly I'm not holding my breath

zepto 5y ago
> You could say the same thing about those anecdotes you're referring to. No, they are not the same. People here are posting what they have experienced. The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That person does not live in SF and is not reporting their own experience. Only what they have read. For them to be true, you’d have to accuse the people reporting their experiences of lying, while taking the poster I was replying to at face value. That would be delusional. I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary. Your opinion about SF is certainly valid, but has nothing to do with a distant person talking about GOP memes.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That's not what I said. (EDIT: For what it's worth, regarding political polarization, I just 'vouched' for your formerly 'dead' comment to me above. While I disagree and don't love how it's handled, it shouldn't be killed IMHO.)
  - zepto 5y ago
    > That's not what I said. It sure looks like that is what you are saying: > The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election. It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact. As for vouching - thanks! Since I haven’t said anything politically polarized, I can only assume I was flagged by people who are.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      Maybe notice that everyone but you is polarized.
      - zepto 5y ago
        Maybe notice that only you are talking about GOP memes and polarization.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- koshergweilo 5y ago
  > The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That's fair, he doesn't live here, but I can vouch for his idea that SF woes are exaggerated for political purposes. I used to live in a very conservative part of California and they used to talk about how the Bay Area is an expensive shithole. I had to move here due to work and was surprised that everything here seems to be about the same price. You get slightly less apartment for the same price, but price floor is pretty much the same. The roads are definitely not as nice but taking public transportation is actually feasible option here. Homelessness mostly hasn't been a problem except for those two areas in SF and Oaklamd, aside from there it's only slightly higher than other major cities I've been to, with the possible exception of Vancouver, where it's actually better. Hopefully my anecdote has enough detail to convince you that I'm at least being honest :) > For them to be true, you’d have to accuse the people reporting their experiences of lying, while taking the poster I was replying to at face value. That would be delusional. Yeah I agree, I reached the same conclusion as that poster by experience, but you definitely shouldn't take it as fact based on it's assertion alone. I think he was just throwing it out there in hopes of starting a discussion, but that's definitely a charitable interpretation. > I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary. Statements like these remind me of the old saying from a bygone age "only a fool would take anything posted here as fact." Anonymous internet posts have no bar for entry and as such, should be treated with extreme skepticism.
  - zepto 5y ago
    >> I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary. > Statements like these remind me of the old saying from a bygone age "only a fool would take anything posted here as fact." Anonymous internet posts have no bar for entry and as such, should be treated with extreme skepticism. Sure but then you have to take literally every post with extreme skepticism. If you pick and choose, then you are simply deluding yourself. If you don’t pick and choose but assume everyone is lying, then you end up in a uselessly paranoid position. This is why I take the statements at face value for the purpose of the conversation. And as I have said elsewhere - people sharing their actual experiences is very different from a distant person saying it’s all a GOP plot. For what it’s worth, I have lived in SF, and the East bay, as well as Europe, and SF is not as bad as the GOP would like to claim, but frankly who cares. Nothing is as bad as the GOP claims. What does seem true to me is that SF and the Bay Area in general does have serious problems and some things have been getting worse for a while. E.g. homelessness. There simply weren’t the same tent cities all over the bay 20 years ago. My point is that this has nothing to do with the GOP meme. Introducing that is literally a way to distract from what is actually going on.
diogenescynic 5y ago
You could google it. There's actual polling and data that backs it all up. Why write up all this without just doing a google search? It's not like we're talking about something that's hard to find....

zepto 5y ago

> You could say the same thing about those anecdotes you're referring to. No, they are not the same. People here are posting what they have experienced. The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That person does not live in SF and is not reporting their own experience. Only what they have read. For them to be true, you’d have to accuse the people reporting their experiences of lying, while taking the poster I was replying to at face value. That would be delusional. I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary. Your opinion about SF is certainly valid, but has nothing to do with a distant person talking about GOP memes.

wolverine876 5y ago
> The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That's not what I said. (EDIT: For what it's worth, regarding political polarization, I just 'vouched' for your formerly 'dead' comment to me above. While I disagree and don't love how it's handled, it shouldn't be killed IMHO.)
- zepto 5y ago
  > That's not what I said. It sure looks like that is what you are saying: > The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election. It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact. As for vouching - thanks! Since I haven’t said anything politically polarized, I can only assume I was flagged by people who are.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    Maybe notice that everyone but you is polarized.
    - zepto 5y ago
      Maybe notice that only you are talking about GOP memes and polarization.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
koshergweilo 5y ago
> The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That's fair, he doesn't live here, but I can vouch for his idea that SF woes are exaggerated for political purposes. I used to live in a very conservative part of California and they used to talk about how the Bay Area is an expensive shithole. I had to move here due to work and was surprised that everything here seems to be about the same price. You get slightly less apartment for the same price, but price floor is pretty much the same. The roads are definitely not as nice but taking public transportation is actually feasible option here. Homelessness mostly hasn't been a problem except for those two areas in SF and Oaklamd, aside from there it's only slightly higher than other major cities I've been to, with the possible exception of Vancouver, where it's actually better. Hopefully my anecdote has enough detail to convince you that I'm at least being honest :) > For them to be true, you’d have to accuse the people reporting their experiences of lying, while taking the poster I was replying to at face value. That would be delusional. Yeah I agree, I reached the same conclusion as that poster by experience, but you definitely shouldn't take it as fact based on it's assertion alone. I think he was just throwing it out there in hopes of starting a discussion, but that's definitely a charitable interpretation. > I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary. Statements like these remind me of the old saying from a bygone age "only a fool would take anything posted here as fact." Anonymous internet posts have no bar for entry and as such, should be treated with extreme skepticism.
- zepto 5y ago
  >> I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary. > Statements like these remind me of the old saying from a bygone age "only a fool would take anything posted here as fact." Anonymous internet posts have no bar for entry and as such, should be treated with extreme skepticism. Sure but then you have to take literally every post with extreme skepticism. If you pick and choose, then you are simply deluding yourself. If you don’t pick and choose but assume everyone is lying, then you end up in a uselessly paranoid position. This is why I take the statements at face value for the purpose of the conversation. And as I have said elsewhere - people sharing their actual experiences is very different from a distant person saying it’s all a GOP plot. For what it’s worth, I have lived in SF, and the East bay, as well as Europe, and SF is not as bad as the GOP would like to claim, but frankly who cares. Nothing is as bad as the GOP claims. What does seem true to me is that SF and the Bay Area in general does have serious problems and some things have been getting worse for a while. E.g. homelessness. There simply weren’t the same tent cities all over the bay 20 years ago. My point is that this has nothing to do with the GOP meme. Introducing that is literally a way to distract from what is actually going on.

diogenescynic 5y ago

You could google it. There's actual polling and data that backs it all up. Why write up all this without just doing a google search? It's not like we're talking about something that's hard to find....