4 ms·

Yeah but this "weird dude" has the backstory of being a US Marine, who defected to the USSR and then defected back to the US... Why assume they stopped being a

by rkk3 5y ago

Yeah but this "weird dude" has the backstory of being a US Marine, who defected to the USSR and then defected back to the US... Why assume they stopped being a state actor.

philwelch 5y ago
That sounds exactly like the life decisions a weird dude would make.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tehjoker 5y ago
  There's some evidence that he gave U2 spy plane secrets to the USSR. They didn't trust him and put him to work in a toy factory. He later came back to the US with a Russian bride that was related to a KGB officer. Unlike everyone else who came back, he was not debriefed by the CIA. They just welcomed him back. Compare that with how they treat Chelsea Manning.
  - philwelch 5y ago
    So maybe he was a CIA asset on top of being a weird dude. Many such cases ;)
pwned1 5y ago
Oswald shot himself in the arm to try to get out of the Marines too. You examine his life and he was a loser his entire adult life. He couldn't keep a job. He believed in Marxism and defected to the Soviet Union expecting to be some hero there. The KGB was rightly skeptical and put him in some horrible factory job. He was disillusioned. Came back to the US expecting to be a media sensation. No one cared. He then believed that Cuba got communism "right" and tried to go there, but the Cubans wouldn't let him in. About all he could handle was menial labor and got a job moving books around a warehouse, when opportunity to get the fame he always wanted presented itself...
- pbaka 5y ago
  Except Oswald was not such a loser, as he was a double agent while in the SSSR [1], and he was staying at the home [2] of George de Mohrenschildt [3], who used to be member [4] of the Nazi Gehlen SS Division which was incorporated the CIA and german BND after WWII [5], and who was expulsed in 1957 by Yugoslavia for having spied on military installations there [6]. Most interestingly, the day of his "suicide", de Mohrenshild had given an interview to a certain journalist named Jay Epstein (! - supposedly no relations), during which he claimed "that in 1962, Dallas CIA operative J. Walton Moore and one of Moore's associates had handed him the address of Lee Harvey Oswald in nearby Fort Worth and then suggested that de Mohrenschildt might like to meet him." - which he had also told the Warren commission. Oh, and he personnaly knew G.H.W. Bush before he became the director of the CIA, the latter having been the roomie of de Mohreshild's nephew [7]. I know that the sound of hooves generally means horses are coming, and the "six degrees of separation" theory... Yet, don't you get the distinct impression we're in the middle of the savannah and insted those sounds might be zebras ? [1] https://knrasm.typepad.com/.a/6a0154328936da970c0168e5939b50970c-pi https://knrasm.typepad.com/.a/6a0154328936da970c0168e5939b50... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#Dallas,_Oswald_and_Haiti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#Dallas... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt - a German noble from Bielorussia, where Oswald had "defected" in 1957 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#House_... [5] https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/germany/gehlen.htm https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/germany/gehlen.h... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#cite_note-57 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#cite_n... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#Later_life,_and_letter_to_CIA_director https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#Later_...
  - vanusa 5y ago
    Gehlen was FHO, not SS. His postwar organization employed SS members, but that's something different. To say it was an "SS Division" is just nuts. There's no information that I'm aware of that connects de Mohrenschildt to Gehlen, and the article you linked to doesn't provide any either.
ErikCorry 5y ago
To be clear, he was married to a KGB agent. So if you really think he had to be a state actor then the only state that makes sense is the Soviet Union.
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  Then why was a Soviet defector who was married to a KGB agent welcomed back into the United States with open arms? Just one of many facts that don't jive with the official narrative.
  - akhosravian 5y ago
    What doesn’t jive? What basis is there for the government to refuse a US citizen entry to the country? Being married to someone doing something illegal isn’t a crime. “Defecting” (in quotes because I’m not aware of Oswald having anything of value for the USSR) isn’t a crime.
    - StanislavPetrov 5y ago
      I suggest you learn some history so you can understand the manner in which "subversives" and suspected Communists were treated in the 1960s. The FBI and was kidnapping, assassinating and doing a variety of other nasty things to "subversives" and suspected Communists. But we are to believe that Oswald, who openly defected to the Soviet Union, was suspected of giving Soviets classified information about the U2 spy plane, and renounced his US citizenship in the US embassy would be welcomed back to the US without sanction or retribution? >In 1971 in San Diego, the FBI financed, armed, and controlled an extreme right-wing group of former members of the Minutemen anti-communist paramilitary organization, transforming it into a group called the Secret Army Organization that targeted groups, activists, and leaders involved in the Anti-War Movement, using both intimidation and violent acts.[10][11][12] >The FBI has used covert operations against domestic political groups since its inception; however, covert operations under the official COINTELPRO label took place between 1956 and 1971. Many of the tactics used in COINTELPRO are alleged to have seen continued use including; discrediting targets through psychological warfare; smearing individuals and groups using forged documents and by planting false reports in the media; harassment; wrongful imprisonment; illegal violence; and assassination.[13][14][15][16] According to a Senate report, the FBI's motivation was "protecting national security, preventing violence, and maintaining the existing social and political order".[17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

by rkk3 5y ago

Yeah but this "weird dude" has the backstory of being a US Marine, who defected to the USSR and then defected back to the US... Why assume they stopped being a state actor.

philwelch 5y ago

That sounds exactly like the life decisions a weird dude would make.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tehjoker 5y ago
There's some evidence that he gave U2 spy plane secrets to the USSR. They didn't trust him and put him to work in a toy factory. He later came back to the US with a Russian bride that was related to a KGB officer. Unlike everyone else who came back, he was not debriefed by the CIA. They just welcomed him back. Compare that with how they treat Chelsea Manning.
- philwelch 5y ago
  So maybe he was a CIA asset on top of being a weird dude. Many such cases ;)

pwned1 5y ago

Oswald shot himself in the arm to try to get out of the Marines too. You examine his life and he was a loser his entire adult life. He couldn't keep a job. He believed in Marxism and defected to the Soviet Union expecting to be some hero there. The KGB was rightly skeptical and put him in some horrible factory job. He was disillusioned. Came back to the US expecting to be a media sensation. No one cared. He then believed that Cuba got communism "right" and tried to go there, but the Cubans wouldn't let him in. About all he could handle was menial labor and got a job moving books around a warehouse, when opportunity to get the fame he always wanted presented itself...

pbaka 5y ago
Except Oswald was not such a loser, as he was a double agent while in the SSSR [1], and he was staying at the home [2] of George de Mohrenschildt [3], who used to be member [4] of the Nazi Gehlen SS Division which was incorporated the CIA and german BND after WWII [5], and who was expulsed in 1957 by Yugoslavia for having spied on military installations there [6]. Most interestingly, the day of his "suicide", de Mohrenshild had given an interview to a certain journalist named Jay Epstein (! - supposedly no relations), during which he claimed "that in 1962, Dallas CIA operative J. Walton Moore and one of Moore's associates had handed him the address of Lee Harvey Oswald in nearby Fort Worth and then suggested that de Mohrenschildt might like to meet him." - which he had also told the Warren commission. Oh, and he personnaly knew G.H.W. Bush before he became the director of the CIA, the latter having been the roomie of de Mohreshild's nephew [7]. I know that the sound of hooves generally means horses are coming, and the "six degrees of separation" theory... Yet, don't you get the distinct impression we're in the middle of the savannah and insted those sounds might be zebras ? [1] https://knrasm.typepad.com/.a/6a0154328936da970c0168e5939b50970c-pi https://knrasm.typepad.com/.a/6a0154328936da970c0168e5939b50... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#Dallas,_Oswald_and_Haiti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#Dallas... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt - a German noble from Bielorussia, where Oswald had "defected" in 1957 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#House_... [5] https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/germany/gehlen.htm https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/germany/gehlen.h... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#cite_note-57 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#cite_n... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#Later_life,_and_letter_to_CIA_director https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt#Later_...
- vanusa 5y ago
  Gehlen was FHO, not SS. His postwar organization employed SS members, but that's something different. To say it was an "SS Division" is just nuts. There's no information that I'm aware of that connects de Mohrenschildt to Gehlen, and the article you linked to doesn't provide any either.

ErikCorry 5y ago

To be clear, he was married to a KGB agent. So if you really think he had to be a state actor then the only state that makes sense is the Soviet Union.

StanislavPetrov 5y ago
Then why was a Soviet defector who was married to a KGB agent welcomed back into the United States with open arms? Just one of many facts that don't jive with the official narrative.
- akhosravian 5y ago
  What doesn’t jive? What basis is there for the government to refuse a US citizen entry to the country? Being married to someone doing something illegal isn’t a crime. “Defecting” (in quotes because I’m not aware of Oswald having anything of value for the USSR) isn’t a crime.
  - StanislavPetrov 5y ago
    I suggest you learn some history so you can understand the manner in which "subversives" and suspected Communists were treated in the 1960s. The FBI and was kidnapping, assassinating and doing a variety of other nasty things to "subversives" and suspected Communists. But we are to believe that Oswald, who openly defected to the Soviet Union, was suspected of giving Soviets classified information about the U2 spy plane, and renounced his US citizenship in the US embassy would be welcomed back to the US without sanction or retribution? >In 1971 in San Diego, the FBI financed, armed, and controlled an extreme right-wing group of former members of the Minutemen anti-communist paramilitary organization, transforming it into a group called the Secret Army Organization that targeted groups, activists, and leaders involved in the Anti-War Movement, using both intimidation and violent acts.[10][11][12] >The FBI has used covert operations against domestic political groups since its inception; however, covert operations under the official COINTELPRO label took place between 1956 and 1971. Many of the tactics used in COINTELPRO are alleged to have seen continued use including; discrediting targets through psychological warfare; smearing individuals and groups using forged documents and by planting false reports in the media; harassment; wrongful imprisonment; illegal violence; and assassination.[13][14][15][16] According to a Senate report, the FBI's motivation was "protecting national security, preventing violence, and maintaining the existing social and political order".[17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO