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This is very insightful. Number 1 can be efficient but it isn’t satisfying if it was taken straight from a cookbook. > But there is nothing instrinsically sup

This is very insightful. Number 1 can be efficient but it isn’t satisfying if it was taken straight from a cookbook. > But there is nothing instrinsically superior to the joy of #2 compared to #1. It's just a psychological/emotional preference. I’m not sure about that. Feeling mastery and competence is intrinsically rewarding. And that’s easier to achieve with point number 2; if your mental model aligns more with the real thing then you are less likely to make mistakes and to have to look up reference material—you are less likely to get estranged from the task at hand.[1] And you are less likely to be bewildered by all the apparent complexity that surrounds you and that the sage old ones just tell you to put up with and to not question. I don’t think you would even mind being less efficient as long as you are in that sweet groove of point number two. [1]: Modernity + alienation: efficient misery.

andy_ppp 5y ago
Yes, the things we derive satisfaction from are because of our ability to slot things into a preexisting framework, proving our opinions correct (which we all love to happen) and releasing dopamine (probably). There is no such thing from applying a specific special case from a piece of software.
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  I guess you could put it like that.
munificent 5y ago
> Number 1 can be efficient but it isn’t satisfying if it was taken straight from a cookbook. That may be true to one degree or another for you, but isn't universal. I also prefer to understand solutions (why pick #1 or #2 when you can have both?), but I have certainly been happy to see a problem evaporate even if I'm not 100% certain why. The result has its own value. > I’m not sure about that. Feeling mastery and competence is intrinsically rewarding. Yes, we all experience #2. My point is just that it's not intrinsically superior to other sources of joy. Preferring it is just that, a preference. There's nothing morally wrong with people who prefer to simply get things done, nor is there something fundamentally flawed with complex software that caters to that.
- nyanpasu64 5y ago
  > I have certainly been happy to see a problem evaporate even if I'm not 100% certain why. And it reappears months or years later to haunt another user with a slightly different configuration, or more or less CPU cores, or the software itself has changed to re-expose the underlying race condition.
Talanes 5y ago
>Feeling mastery and competence is intrinsically rewarding. And that’s easier to achieve with point number 2 I started to write a point about how this wouldn't necessarily generalize to every field. The woodworker, for example, likely feels mastery and competence by knowing exactly which specific tool is best for the task at hand. I'm not sure it really works as a counterpoint though, because in that scenario "knowing which tool is best for the task" kind of is the mental model.
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  > I'm not sure it really works as a counterpoint though, because in that scenario "knowing which tool is best for the task" kind of is the mental model. Yes. It would be point number one if he had to ask some oracle about what tool to use.

andy_ppp 5y ago

Yes, the things we derive satisfaction from are because of our ability to slot things into a preexisting framework, proving our opinions correct (which we all love to happen) and releasing dopamine (probably). There is no such thing from applying a specific special case from a piece of software.

avgcorrection 5y ago
I guess you could put it like that.

munificent 5y ago

> Number 1 can be efficient but it isn’t satisfying if it was taken straight from a cookbook. That may be true to one degree or another for you, but isn't universal. I also prefer to understand solutions (why pick #1 or #2 when you can have both?), but I have certainly been happy to see a problem evaporate even if I'm not 100% certain why. The result has its own value. > I’m not sure about that. Feeling mastery and competence is intrinsically rewarding. Yes, we all experience #2. My point is just that it's not intrinsically superior to other sources of joy. Preferring it is just that, a preference. There's nothing morally wrong with people who prefer to simply get things done, nor is there something fundamentally flawed with complex software that caters to that.

nyanpasu64 5y ago
> I have certainly been happy to see a problem evaporate even if I'm not 100% certain why. And it reappears months or years later to haunt another user with a slightly different configuration, or more or less CPU cores, or the software itself has changed to re-expose the underlying race condition.

Talanes 5y ago

>Feeling mastery and competence is intrinsically rewarding. And that’s easier to achieve with point number 2 I started to write a point about how this wouldn't necessarily generalize to every field. The woodworker, for example, likely feels mastery and competence by knowing exactly which specific tool is best for the task at hand. I'm not sure it really works as a counterpoint though, because in that scenario "knowing which tool is best for the task" kind of is the mental model.

avgcorrection 5y ago
> I'm not sure it really works as a counterpoint though, because in that scenario "knowing which tool is best for the task" kind of is the mental model. Yes. It would be point number one if he had to ask some oracle about what tool to use.