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I hate this thing as much as the rest of HN but I think you are thinking too far. CSAM is just a tool that matches image hashes. It can't make accusations. Mat

by GuB-42 5y ago

I hate this thing as much as the rest of HN but I think you are thinking too far. CSAM is just a tool that matches image hashes. It can't make accusations. Matching hashes is not illegal, even having pictures of abused children is not illegal, no prosecutor will take your case if it is the only thing you have. At most it will turn you into a witness. If there is an investigation, it can turn you into a suspect, but suspicion is not an accusation. I mean, if your car is parked next to the place a crime happened, you can be suspected, but it doesn't mean you are going to jail because of where you parked your car. If, for some reason, you get wrongly accused because the system recorded a match and nothing else, it is not a problem of the tool, it is the much bigger problem of justice not working, blame your shithole country if it happens, not Apple. I am not saying that false accusations don't happen, but saying that police has no other job than to prosecute is a bit much. Police asked me questions a few times, once for a car that caught fire not far away from where I was, once for a missing person, and once they didn't tell me the reason. Was I suspected? Maybe, I was at the "wrong place" after all, but yet, I never heard from them again. If prosecution was their only goal, I would have been in jail now.

kobalsky 5y ago
> CSAM is just a tool that matches image hashes. It can't make accusations who validates the source content of the hashes? what stops the government from adding one tiny bitty hash that they know is uniquely present in let's say, assange's phone?
- GuB-42 5y ago
  Again a "what if" scenario. It is not trivial to identify a picture that is uniquely present in Assange's phone. Without having access to Assange's phone that is. And if you have access to Assange's phone, you probably have way more information than such a trick will give you. But yes, it is a problem, and a reason why I dislike CSAM. But from "allowing the government to track highly sensitive individuals" to "you, the average citizen, will go to jail", there is a huge gap. Also, I think one thing many people missed is that a hash is not enough. The only thing a hash does it that it allows a reviewer at Apple to decrypt a matching file. If the picture turns out to be nothing special, nothing will happen. In fact, that feature is much weaker than people make it, it just puts Apple on par with what others like Google, Microsoft, etc... can do. I think the reason it got so much negative press is that Apple made privacy a big selling point. I think it serves them right, I don't like how Apple treats privacy as just a way to attack Google without really committing to it, but still, for the facts, it is a bit unfair.

by GuB-42 5y ago

kobalsky 5y ago

> CSAM is just a tool that matches image hashes. It can't make accusations who validates the source content of the hashes? what stops the government from adding one tiny bitty hash that they know is uniquely present in let's say, assange's phone?

GuB-42 5y ago
Again a "what if" scenario. It is not trivial to identify a picture that is uniquely present in Assange's phone. Without having access to Assange's phone that is. And if you have access to Assange's phone, you probably have way more information than such a trick will give you. But yes, it is a problem, and a reason why I dislike CSAM. But from "allowing the government to track highly sensitive individuals" to "you, the average citizen, will go to jail", there is a huge gap. Also, I think one thing many people missed is that a hash is not enough. The only thing a hash does it that it allows a reviewer at Apple to decrypt a matching file. If the picture turns out to be nothing special, nothing will happen. In fact, that feature is much weaker than people make it, it just puts Apple on par with what others like Google, Microsoft, etc... can do. I think the reason it got so much negative press is that Apple made privacy a big selling point. I think it serves them right, I don't like how Apple treats privacy as just a way to attack Google without really committing to it, but still, for the facts, it is a bit unfair.