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It's still pretty expensive! NSO charged a flat $500,000 fee for installing Pegasus. It charged government agencies $650,000 to spy on 10 iPhones; $650,000 for

by pradn 5y ago

It's still pretty expensive! NSO charged a flat $500,000 fee for installing Pegasus. It charged government agencies $650,000 to spy on 10 iPhones; $650,000 for 10 Android users; $500,000 for five BlackBerry users; or $300,000 for five Symbian users.

krashidov 5y ago
Feels weird that a private company can target individuals for a price. How was this legal? Isn’t it illegal to hack the phone of a private individual? Or do they simply say here’s the tool, here’s the manual, do what you want just don’t tell us?
- kube-system 5y ago
  Isreal classifies it as a weapon. In contrast to companies that make guns and bombs, spyware seems mild by comparison.
  - rodgerd 5y ago
    Depends whether the spyware ends up with you being cut to pieces with a hacksaw while a Saudi prince watches over a teleconference link, I guess. I'd rather be blown up.
- dogma1138 5y ago
  Phone companies charge governments to tap a phone line this isn’t that different with the only exception that phone companies usually have to only follow requests made within the country they operate in and those are usually backed by a warrant. Like with any complicated tech things are a bit more involved since their exports are controlled under the same regime as weapon exports do in Israel they likely have some oversight to ensure that their tech does not leak out and isn’t used outside of the bounds of what was agreed on at levels that go beyond NSO as a company itself. These exports were very much part of the Israeli and quite likely the US foreign policy. Some deals like the one with KSA probably should never been greenlit but many others unfortunately have had the outrage steered away from the main culprits. Amongst their exports they’ve also exported it to European nations such as Poland. Poland an EU and NATO member had used this software to have one of its government agencies spy on a prosecutor in charge of an investigation into some of the leading party’s members, however it didn’t seem to generate as much outrage and what little it had was directed as the NSO or Israel which is laughable. Poland isn’t a state that normally could fall under any arms embargoes or export restrictions. This software had likely very little to do with Khashoggi‘s fate, they didn’t use it to lure him into a trap or to track him for an assassination he was killed in an embassy after being invited to come in, and he came in out of his own free will. I’m far more interested in how some of their western clients have used this software and unfortunately so far no one seems to want to pick or steer the story that way.
- rodgerd 5y ago
  NSO have been trying to argue that they're shielded from responsibility for their actions by being a de facto extension of the state that they've sold to and therefore enjoy sovereign immunity. The collapse of that argument in the Facebook case is why Apple are now suing as well.
- sobkas 5y ago
  > Feels weird that a private company can target individuals for a price. How was this legal? Isn’t it illegal to hack the phone of a private individual? Or do they simply say here’s the tool, here’s the manual, do what you want just don’t tell us? It's only illegal if you get caught. And then find someone to prosecute you.
roughly 5y ago
For the capability and who they're charging, frankly, that sounds cheap. For an example of what a nation state is willing to spend to target a single individual, a hellfire missile costs about $150k and doesn't generate intel in the process.
shudza 5y ago
A lot of people talking about governments as NSO's top clients... How do the governments actually pay them? Out of their pockets? State budget? In any ridiculous case, shouldn't this kind of payment be easy to track? Why is no one talking about this? Why isn't this forbidden on international level? The US (as world peacemaker) seem pretty chill about it. I thought this was 'merica!

by pradn 5y ago

krashidov 5y ago

Feels weird that a private company can target individuals for a price. How was this legal? Isn’t it illegal to hack the phone of a private individual? Or do they simply say here’s the tool, here’s the manual, do what you want just don’t tell us?

kube-system 5y ago
Isreal classifies it as a weapon. In contrast to companies that make guns and bombs, spyware seems mild by comparison.
- rodgerd 5y ago
  Depends whether the spyware ends up with you being cut to pieces with a hacksaw while a Saudi prince watches over a teleconference link, I guess. I'd rather be blown up.
dogma1138 5y ago
Phone companies charge governments to tap a phone line this isn’t that different with the only exception that phone companies usually have to only follow requests made within the country they operate in and those are usually backed by a warrant. Like with any complicated tech things are a bit more involved since their exports are controlled under the same regime as weapon exports do in Israel they likely have some oversight to ensure that their tech does not leak out and isn’t used outside of the bounds of what was agreed on at levels that go beyond NSO as a company itself. These exports were very much part of the Israeli and quite likely the US foreign policy. Some deals like the one with KSA probably should never been greenlit but many others unfortunately have had the outrage steered away from the main culprits. Amongst their exports they’ve also exported it to European nations such as Poland. Poland an EU and NATO member had used this software to have one of its government agencies spy on a prosecutor in charge of an investigation into some of the leading party’s members, however it didn’t seem to generate as much outrage and what little it had was directed as the NSO or Israel which is laughable. Poland isn’t a state that normally could fall under any arms embargoes or export restrictions. This software had likely very little to do with Khashoggi‘s fate, they didn’t use it to lure him into a trap or to track him for an assassination he was killed in an embassy after being invited to come in, and he came in out of his own free will. I’m far more interested in how some of their western clients have used this software and unfortunately so far no one seems to want to pick or steer the story that way.
rodgerd 5y ago
NSO have been trying to argue that they're shielded from responsibility for their actions by being a de facto extension of the state that they've sold to and therefore enjoy sovereign immunity. The collapse of that argument in the Facebook case is why Apple are now suing as well.
sobkas 5y ago
> Feels weird that a private company can target individuals for a price. How was this legal? Isn’t it illegal to hack the phone of a private individual? Or do they simply say here’s the tool, here’s the manual, do what you want just don’t tell us? It's only illegal if you get caught. And then find someone to prosecute you.

roughly 5y ago

For the capability and who they're charging, frankly, that sounds cheap. For an example of what a nation state is willing to spend to target a single individual, a hellfire missile costs about $150k and doesn't generate intel in the process.

shudza 5y ago

A lot of people talking about governments as NSO's top clients... How do the governments actually pay them? Out of their pockets? State budget? In any ridiculous case, shouldn't this kind of payment be easy to track? Why is no one talking about this? Why isn't this forbidden on international level? The US (as world peacemaker) seem pretty chill about it. I thought this was 'merica!