4 ms·

Wow this escalated hilariously fast. Coming from a country with universal healthcare, I find it amazing how you believe your absolutely shitty coverage is to bl

by medio 5y ago

Wow this escalated hilariously fast. Coming from a country with universal healthcare, I find it amazing how you believe your absolutely shitty coverage is to blame instead of, I don’t know, corporate greed? But yeah, I guess low-level employees should do without healthcare, they just shouldn’t be poor AND sick after all :)

m0lecules 5y ago
the point is that healthcare costs have to be socialized – if you put the burden on the employer, you necessarily end up with the US system.
- zmix 5y ago
  In Germany, the employer must pay half of the monthly healtcare plan and the employee pays the other half. Goes like this since decades in one of the strongest economies of the world. Of course, Apple is more worth than the whole DAX...
  - xwolfi 5y ago
    Be careful of market cap numbers, they hide information and are almost meaningless: they don't describe volume behavior. If suddenly people realized Apple had to be sold as fast as possible, most of that value would evaporate to reach a more reasonable tangible asset value. It's possible German stocks are well priced, in a regulated, slow and rational market that cares about fitting the price with the value of the company, and would hold most of their current market cap much more than Apple, were it liquidated.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      >It's possible German stocks are well priced, in a regulated, slow and rational market that cares about fitting the price with the value of the company LOL, well regulated and rational my ass. The Deutsche Bank and Wirecard scandals (puls numerous more) proved the German government is just as corrupt when it comes to manipulating the market and threatening honest journalists, so that some rich and well connected scumbags can get even more obscenely rich. I've worked in several western countries but never saw more high-level corporate corruption than in Germany.
      - zmix 5y ago
        > Wirecard scandal Oh yes, the regulation (BaFin?) totally was out of order on that one!
    - burntoutfire 5y ago
      DAX P/E at the end of 2020 was 27, while Apple's was 35.5. Higher, but not shockingly so.
    - zmix 5y ago
      Thanks for that insight. When it comes to Stocks & Co. I don't know much, if anything. I find it always interesting to read information, that puts things into a relative perspective. The information I had was from an infographic I saw a few weeks ago.
oneoff786 5y ago
You’ve got it backwards. By not directly employing low level workers for roles like janitors, companies do not need to pay for their healthcare. It is a very expensive cost per head even if the plan is shit. In America, employees get health insurance from their employer. Your eagerness to shit on America made you entirely miss the point. Believe it or not, it is extremely obvious to many that universal healthcare would be a cheaper and preferential option.
- asdff 5y ago
  Most companies just get around this by only scheduling you for 38 hours a week or something like that.
  - oneoff786 5y ago
    That is a common way, yes. Contractors from a firm is the other big one. There are folks who can spend decades working at the same org, full time, without technically being a real employee
m4x 5y ago
Your response is rude and completely misses the point of the person you responded to. If companies have to provide healthcare coverage for their fulltime employees, but not their gig workers and contractors, which type of employment do you think they are going to prioritise? If healthcare costs were applied uniformly through tax (as is done in most countries with universal healthcare) then there would be less reason for employers to prefer one type of employment contract over another for low level jobs.

by medio 5y ago

m0lecules 5y ago

the point is that healthcare costs have to be socialized – if you put the burden on the employer, you necessarily end up with the US system.

zmix 5y ago
In Germany, the employer must pay half of the monthly healtcare plan and the employee pays the other half. Goes like this since decades in one of the strongest economies of the world. Of course, Apple is more worth than the whole DAX...
- xwolfi 5y ago
  Be careful of market cap numbers, they hide information and are almost meaningless: they don't describe volume behavior. If suddenly people realized Apple had to be sold as fast as possible, most of that value would evaporate to reach a more reasonable tangible asset value. It's possible German stocks are well priced, in a regulated, slow and rational market that cares about fitting the price with the value of the company, and would hold most of their current market cap much more than Apple, were it liquidated.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >It's possible German stocks are well priced, in a regulated, slow and rational market that cares about fitting the price with the value of the company LOL, well regulated and rational my ass. The Deutsche Bank and Wirecard scandals (puls numerous more) proved the German government is just as corrupt when it comes to manipulating the market and threatening honest journalists, so that some rich and well connected scumbags can get even more obscenely rich. I've worked in several western countries but never saw more high-level corporate corruption than in Germany.
    - zmix 5y ago
      > Wirecard scandal Oh yes, the regulation (BaFin?) totally was out of order on that one!
  - burntoutfire 5y ago
    DAX P/E at the end of 2020 was 27, while Apple's was 35.5. Higher, but not shockingly so.
  - zmix 5y ago
    Thanks for that insight. When it comes to Stocks & Co. I don't know much, if anything. I find it always interesting to read information, that puts things into a relative perspective. The information I had was from an infographic I saw a few weeks ago.

oneoff786 5y ago

You’ve got it backwards. By not directly employing low level workers for roles like janitors, companies do not need to pay for their healthcare. It is a very expensive cost per head even if the plan is shit. In America, employees get health insurance from their employer. Your eagerness to shit on America made you entirely miss the point. Believe it or not, it is extremely obvious to many that universal healthcare would be a cheaper and preferential option.

asdff 5y ago
Most companies just get around this by only scheduling you for 38 hours a week or something like that.
- oneoff786 5y ago
  That is a common way, yes. Contractors from a firm is the other big one. There are folks who can spend decades working at the same org, full time, without technically being a real employee

m4x 5y ago

Your response is rude and completely misses the point of the person you responded to. If companies have to provide healthcare coverage for their fulltime employees, but not their gig workers and contractors, which type of employment do you think they are going to prioritise? If healthcare costs were applied uniformly through tax (as is done in most countries with universal healthcare) then there would be less reason for employers to prefer one type of employment contract over another for low level jobs.