7 ms·

Fully in the camp that a sniper fired a shot, and then a bodyguard accidentally capped the president from behind. Never revealed out of government shame. Hopefu

Fully in the camp that a sniper fired a shot, and then a bodyguard accidentally capped the president from behind. Never revealed out of government shame. Hopeful to learn more.

pplante 5y ago
That is one of the most out there conspiracy theories I have heard.
- michaelwilson 5y ago
  So you haven't heard the one about Ted Cruz's father being behind it?
  - the-dude 5y ago
    Wasn't Bush Sr present ?
    - kevinmchugh 5y ago
      In Dallas, and he said he couldn't remember why he was in Dallas. It's not like anyone ever said he was in the grassy knoll or something though
- oneoff786 5y ago
  Not enough of a nutter to argue passionately about it, but it’s not that out there. There were secret service men right behind him in a car that suddenly lurched forward after the shots were made (so a physical force could have caused the accident not just an itchy trigger finger on a guard). His wound implies behind shot from behind but placing the snipers behind hasn’t made sense ever.
  - Ancapistani 5y ago
    FWIW, I don’t believe this is what happened, but as I understand it the Secret Service agents had recently been issued a new carbine - an AR-15. At any rate, George Hickey was the agent usually identified as the person who would have negligently discharged his rifle, and photos of the event clearly show him with an AR-15. Allegedly, the Secret Service changed their procedures shortly thereafter to require their agents to carry with an empty chamber. I have no idea if that’s true.
    - technothrasher 5y ago
      > Secret Service agents had recently been issued a new carbine - an AR-15 Perhaps I'm being too pedantic, but the firearm Hickey was carrying wasn't a carbine. It was a Colt model 601 rifle, the first variant of the AR-15 that Colt produced after purchasing the AR-15 patents from Armalite. BTW, this "Hickey did it" theory was popularized by Bonar Menninger in his 1992 book "Mortal Error." Hickey later sued the publisher for defamation, but the lawsuit was dismissed.
- daneel_w 5y ago
  If it were true it would've been a fatal accident, but not a conspiracy. Covering it up afterwards, out of embarrassment, would've been the conspiracy - and keep in mind that the US govt. has covered up some pretty crazy things in the past. But I hear you, it's definitely a wild theory.
  - lapetitejort 5y ago
    But covering for some low-ranking secret service agent's accident seems like a lower priority than covering up something malicious like the Gulf of Tonkin affair, which has been revealed.
    - kyaghmour 5y ago
      Do you understand what it would've done to the US' standing vis-a-vis the USSR in the world if it were revealed that someone who is tasked with protecting the most important part of the executive branch accidentally killed them in exactly the type of event where they should've been keeping them safe? What image would that have projected to the rest of the world about America's abilities? Espc. in light of the then just happened Cuban missile crisis, etc.
      - cardiffspaceman 5y ago
        Don't you think this sort of thing already wrecks US standing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Fidel_Castro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Fide...
        kipchak 5y ago
        I would figure a lot higher percentage of people are aware of JFK's death than failed attempts on Castro.
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        That doesn't change that the US was highly sensitive of their image during the cold war.
sneeds 5y ago
Do you think the video is edited or where was the body guard that you think shot him?
- vanusa 5y ago
  It wasn't a "video", back then they only had ... never mind.
  - sneeds 5y ago
    I dont even know what you are trying to say.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - vanusa 5y ago
      The commenter thinks the Zapruder film was a "video" is what I'm saying.
      - jstanley 5y ago
        In what way is it not a video?
        shard 5y ago
        As a generalization: Video, going back to before the digital era, refers to images recorded on magnetic videotapes, such as VHS or Betamax. This is in contrast with film, which is images recorded using light sensitive silver halide crystals. Video tapes are viewed by scanning the magnetic strips and displaying on a monitor with scan lines. Films are viewed by shining a light through the developed film and displaying the whole image on a reflective screen.
        BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
kyaghmour 5y ago
There's a documentary about that fwiw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn97UF_kfYo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn97UF_kfYo
tehjoker 5y ago
That doesn't make sense. The Zapruder film shows him shot from the front. Jackie Kennedy goes and grabs a piece of brain or skull from the back of the car.
- madspindel 5y ago
  > Jackie Kennedy goes and grabs a piece of brain or skull from the back of the car. Sorry, not from the US but why would she do that?
  - swamp40 5y ago
    Because people do weird things under extreme stress.
  - khazhoux 5y ago
    She reached for it within the fraction of a second that the bullet struck JFK's head. It was an instinctive action. In fact, we humans usually can't rationally comprehend catastrophic injury to the body, while in that state of immediate shock. Think of the image of the soldier carrying his detached arm.
  - dang 5y ago
    Edit: the parent comment originally said "why would she do that? To keep a souvenir?" and has since been edited. Stealth-editing a comment to deprive replies of their meaning is not a nice thing to do, so please don't do that. -- original reply: -- "Don't be snarky." "Eschew flamebait." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - shadowgovt 5y ago
      Clarification: is this snark or flamebait? I might be missing something, but it seems like a reasonable question. I recall the first time I heard she'd done that, my own incredulity was similar (having never been in a life-or-death crisis, I didn't have the frame-of-reference to get that a person may not be thinking rationally "Doctors can't put brain parts back in" and might grab whatever they see come off a loved one).
hindsightbias 5y ago
I think you mean from the front. Guy riding shotgun turned around and you see his arm extended.
- oneoff786 5y ago
  Probably yeah. I’m like toes deep invested in this one.
swearwolf 5y ago
Me too. All the shadowy conspiracy theories seem way too complicated, but a simple screwup and the desire to bury it out of embarrassment seems so completely in line with every organization I've ever worked in. For those of you who aren't familiar, the Secret Service team had been working hard in the year prior to the assassination, and decided to blow off some steam by going out drinking the night before the parade. Because they were all quite hungover, they assigned a relatively new team member, who hadn't gone out drinking with them, to hold the brand new AR-15 they had just been assigned. After the first shot was fired, that agent stood up and began to aim the AR-15, and was immediately knocked back down by the car lurching forward. The theory is that he accidentally squeezed off a round at that moment, which by chance struck Kennedy in the head and killed him. Supporting evidence: - The type of bullet that hit Kennedy's head was a frangible one, which is designed to explode upon impact, whereas Oswald's ammunition was non-frangible. - The third shell found at the book depository was in a different place, and was bent. It could have been used as a chamber plug to keep the chamber safe from dirt and moisture. - A ballistic expert determined that the fatal shot was most likely to have come from the left rear seat of the Secret Service followup car.
nextstep 5y ago
This would make sense if you ignore all of the facts of the case and also have no understanding of how the government works.
bborud 5y ago
So essentially Hanlon's Razor.
fatbird 5y ago
Here's video by CBS where they easily and repeatedly reproduce Oswald's shots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghmY6HmR4fs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghmY6HmR4fs. Contrary to a lot of assertion, it wasn't that difficult.
refurb 5y ago
A bodyguard firing a handgun from that distance isn't going to blow a fist sized hole in his skull. It was definitely a rifle round.
- oneoff786 5y ago
  That’s not a point of contention. This theory identifies the person, with a raised rifle, being jostled by a lurching car.

Fully in the camp that a sniper fired a shot, and then a bodyguard accidentally capped the president from behind. Never revealed out of government shame. Hopeful to learn more.

pplante 5y ago

That is one of the most out there conspiracy theories I have heard.

michaelwilson 5y ago
So you haven't heard the one about Ted Cruz's father being behind it?
- the-dude 5y ago
  Wasn't Bush Sr present ?
  - kevinmchugh 5y ago
    In Dallas, and he said he couldn't remember why he was in Dallas. It's not like anyone ever said he was in the grassy knoll or something though
oneoff786 5y ago
Not enough of a nutter to argue passionately about it, but it’s not that out there. There were secret service men right behind him in a car that suddenly lurched forward after the shots were made (so a physical force could have caused the accident not just an itchy trigger finger on a guard). His wound implies behind shot from behind but placing the snipers behind hasn’t made sense ever.
- Ancapistani 5y ago
  FWIW, I don’t believe this is what happened, but as I understand it the Secret Service agents had recently been issued a new carbine - an AR-15. At any rate, George Hickey was the agent usually identified as the person who would have negligently discharged his rifle, and photos of the event clearly show him with an AR-15. Allegedly, the Secret Service changed their procedures shortly thereafter to require their agents to carry with an empty chamber. I have no idea if that’s true.
  - technothrasher 5y ago
    > Secret Service agents had recently been issued a new carbine - an AR-15 Perhaps I'm being too pedantic, but the firearm Hickey was carrying wasn't a carbine. It was a Colt model 601 rifle, the first variant of the AR-15 that Colt produced after purchasing the AR-15 patents from Armalite. BTW, this "Hickey did it" theory was popularized by Bonar Menninger in his 1992 book "Mortal Error." Hickey later sued the publisher for defamation, but the lawsuit was dismissed.
daneel_w 5y ago
If it were true it would've been a fatal accident, but not a conspiracy. Covering it up afterwards, out of embarrassment, would've been the conspiracy - and keep in mind that the US govt. has covered up some pretty crazy things in the past. But I hear you, it's definitely a wild theory.
- lapetitejort 5y ago
  But covering for some low-ranking secret service agent's accident seems like a lower priority than covering up something malicious like the Gulf of Tonkin affair, which has been revealed.
  - kyaghmour 5y ago
    Do you understand what it would've done to the US' standing vis-a-vis the USSR in the world if it were revealed that someone who is tasked with protecting the most important part of the executive branch accidentally killed them in exactly the type of event where they should've been keeping them safe? What image would that have projected to the rest of the world about America's abilities? Espc. in light of the then just happened Cuban missile crisis, etc.
    - cardiffspaceman 5y ago
      Don't you think this sort of thing already wrecks US standing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Fidel_Castro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Fide...
      - kipchak 5y ago
        I would figure a lot higher percentage of people are aware of JFK's death than failed attempts on Castro.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        That doesn't change that the US was highly sensitive of their image during the cold war.

sneeds 5y ago

Do you think the video is edited or where was the body guard that you think shot him?

vanusa 5y ago
It wasn't a "video", back then they only had ... never mind.
- sneeds 5y ago
  I dont even know what you are trying to say.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - vanusa 5y ago
    The commenter thinks the Zapruder film was a "video" is what I'm saying.
    - jstanley 5y ago
      In what way is it not a video?
      - shard 5y ago
        As a generalization: Video, going back to before the digital era, refers to images recorded on magnetic videotapes, such as VHS or Betamax. This is in contrast with film, which is images recorded using light sensitive silver halide crystals. Video tapes are viewed by scanning the magnetic strips and displaying on a monitor with scan lines. Films are viewed by shining a light through the developed film and displaying the whole image on a reflective screen.
        BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago

kyaghmour 5y ago

There's a documentary about that fwiw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn97UF_kfYo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn97UF_kfYo

tehjoker 5y ago

That doesn't make sense. The Zapruder film shows him shot from the front. Jackie Kennedy goes and grabs a piece of brain or skull from the back of the car.

madspindel 5y ago
> Jackie Kennedy goes and grabs a piece of brain or skull from the back of the car. Sorry, not from the US but why would she do that?
- swamp40 5y ago
  Because people do weird things under extreme stress.
- khazhoux 5y ago
  She reached for it within the fraction of a second that the bullet struck JFK's head. It was an instinctive action. In fact, we humans usually can't rationally comprehend catastrophic injury to the body, while in that state of immediate shock. Think of the image of the soldier carrying his detached arm.
- dang 5y ago
  Edit: the parent comment originally said "why would she do that? To keep a souvenir?" and has since been edited. Stealth-editing a comment to deprive replies of their meaning is not a nice thing to do, so please don't do that. -- original reply: -- "Don't be snarky." "Eschew flamebait." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    Clarification: is this snark or flamebait? I might be missing something, but it seems like a reasonable question. I recall the first time I heard she'd done that, my own incredulity was similar (having never been in a life-or-death crisis, I didn't have the frame-of-reference to get that a person may not be thinking rationally "Doctors can't put brain parts back in" and might grab whatever they see come off a loved one).

hindsightbias 5y ago

I think you mean from the front. Guy riding shotgun turned around and you see his arm extended.

oneoff786 5y ago
Probably yeah. I’m like toes deep invested in this one.

swearwolf 5y ago

Me too. All the shadowy conspiracy theories seem way too complicated, but a simple screwup and the desire to bury it out of embarrassment seems so completely in line with every organization I've ever worked in. For those of you who aren't familiar, the Secret Service team had been working hard in the year prior to the assassination, and decided to blow off some steam by going out drinking the night before the parade. Because they were all quite hungover, they assigned a relatively new team member, who hadn't gone out drinking with them, to hold the brand new AR-15 they had just been assigned. After the first shot was fired, that agent stood up and began to aim the AR-15, and was immediately knocked back down by the car lurching forward. The theory is that he accidentally squeezed off a round at that moment, which by chance struck Kennedy in the head and killed him. Supporting evidence: - The type of bullet that hit Kennedy's head was a frangible one, which is designed to explode upon impact, whereas Oswald's ammunition was non-frangible. - The third shell found at the book depository was in a different place, and was bent. It could have been used as a chamber plug to keep the chamber safe from dirt and moisture. - A ballistic expert determined that the fatal shot was most likely to have come from the left rear seat of the Secret Service followup car.

nextstep 5y ago

This would make sense if you ignore all of the facts of the case and also have no understanding of how the government works.

bborud 5y ago

So essentially Hanlon's Razor.

fatbird 5y ago

Here's video by CBS where they easily and repeatedly reproduce Oswald's shots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghmY6HmR4fs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghmY6HmR4fs. Contrary to a lot of assertion, it wasn't that difficult.

refurb 5y ago

A bodyguard firing a handgun from that distance isn't going to blow a fist sized hole in his skull. It was definitely a rifle round.

oneoff786 5y ago
That’s not a point of contention. This theory identifies the person, with a raised rifle, being jostled by a lurching car.