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> The reason most people aren't constantly worried about being murdered isn't because we have super advanced defense systems but because the fear of punishment

by ohazi 5y ago

> The reason most people aren't constantly worried about being murdered isn't because we have super advanced defense systems but because the fear of punishment keeps people from doing it. No, the real reason most people aren't constantly worried about being murdered is that most of the people we encounter aren't murderers.

Spivak 5y ago
> most of the people we encounter aren't murderers Gods I wish this fallacy had a name, I guess it's a corollary of the Spiders Georg principal. The number of perpetrators is not proportional to the number of victims. It's not true that 40% of men will sexually assault someone in their lifetime but it's nonetheless true that 40% of women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.
- belval 5y ago
  Jesus in what country? Even taking some very liberal definition of rape 25% is insanely high. Do you have some source on that? EDIT: In the US we have a 2000 study quoting 5% and a 2011 study saying "nearly 20%" but their data include attempted rape which is a pretty important distinction. This is coming from Wikipedia though.
  - Spivak 5y ago
    Changed it to sexual assault because you're right, the study I was going off of included attempted rape which made it higher, but also only counted penetration which is also kinda dumb. Switching to sexual assault eliminates some ambiguity.
- ohazi 5y ago
  Fine, turn my statement around if you prefer. The reason people aren't afraid of being murdered is because being a victim of murder is rare. But the statistic you're citing here conflicts with your earlier statement (which is the one I take issue with): > isn't because we have super advanced defense systems but because the fear of punishment keeps people from doing it. The "fear of punishment" deterrent is clearly doing absolutely nothing for the 40% of women who have been / will be sexually assaulted. Fear of punishment does not work when "correct" execution of justice is so rare and arbitrary. That's my point. Police are corrupt. Prosecutors are corrupt. Therefore, there is no justice. Therefore, "fear of justice" doesn't work as a deterrent. Even if the police were better, if all it takes is a few murdering, raping, psychopaths to do all of the damage, how could "fear of punishment" possibly work? There is, however, fear that the bureaucracy will decide to come after you in a Kafkaesque horror show...

by ohazi 5y ago

Spivak 5y ago

> most of the people we encounter aren't murderers Gods I wish this fallacy had a name, I guess it's a corollary of the Spiders Georg principal. The number of perpetrators is not proportional to the number of victims. It's not true that 40% of men will sexually assault someone in their lifetime but it's nonetheless true that 40% of women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

belval 5y ago
Jesus in what country? Even taking some very liberal definition of rape 25% is insanely high. Do you have some source on that? EDIT: In the US we have a 2000 study quoting 5% and a 2011 study saying "nearly 20%" but their data include attempted rape which is a pretty important distinction. This is coming from Wikipedia though.
- Spivak 5y ago
  Changed it to sexual assault because you're right, the study I was going off of included attempted rape which made it higher, but also only counted penetration which is also kinda dumb. Switching to sexual assault eliminates some ambiguity.
ohazi 5y ago
Fine, turn my statement around if you prefer. The reason people aren't afraid of being murdered is because being a victim of murder is rare. But the statistic you're citing here conflicts with your earlier statement (which is the one I take issue with): > isn't because we have super advanced defense systems but because the fear of punishment keeps people from doing it. The "fear of punishment" deterrent is clearly doing absolutely nothing for the 40% of women who have been / will be sexually assaulted. Fear of punishment does not work when "correct" execution of justice is so rare and arbitrary. That's my point. Police are corrupt. Prosecutors are corrupt. Therefore, there is no justice. Therefore, "fear of justice" doesn't work as a deterrent. Even if the police were better, if all it takes is a few murdering, raping, psychopaths to do all of the damage, how could "fear of punishment" possibly work? There is, however, fear that the bureaucracy will decide to come after you in a Kafkaesque horror show...