5 ms·

Pointing out crap is how lowbrow critics and socialites gain status, either not being capable or interested in building something themselves.

gizmo686 5y ago
There is no such thing as building something yourself. When you make something, you use tools, materials and methods made by other people. The most important part of building something that isn't crap is being able to recognize the crap in what you are considering for use. Then deciding if you can contain the crap, or find a less crappy alternative.
- u-rate 5y ago
  Well you can actually build something yourself. Sure, someone else built e.g. the code editor you‘re using, but if you come up with an algorithm yourself, you did, by definition, build it yourself.
  - gizmo686 5y ago
    If you create an algorithm, it is likely based on previous algorithms you learned, and millenia of mathametics. To implement it in a computer, you likely rely on an operating system to run on, layers of userspace libraries, layers of firmware, many independent hardware components. An electrical supply.
- francisofascii 5y ago
  I think the point was, simply pointing out flaws is an activity that requires very little effort. A more laudable activity is to provide a better way or work toward making an improvement.
- rurban 5y ago
  There is such a thing as building by yourself. Otherwise you do end up with 90% crap, and there exist people which are annoyed by that. Eg build systems without autotools, cmake or even more horrible bloatware (meson, bazel, conan, scons, nix, ...). That's why e.g people ship header-only libs. That's why suckless exists. XML configs, YAML configs, SOAP, Java, ... oh my.
nonameiguess 5y ago
Is it? I'm looking around my house right now and virtually everything is shoddy craftsmanship from people who were either being underpaid or just didn't give a shit. The cabinetry isn't level with the floor, the doors don't quite fit the door frame, there are paint stains on the outside of the 4th-floor windows, some of my GFCI outlets were installed with the wires connected upside down and my electricity is blowing fuses all the time, LED bulbs that are supposed to last years last weeks instead, my roof had exposed nails that eventually rotted through and created leaks. Am I just supposed to build everything I own myself from scratch? I have a full-time job. I was also coming off three spine surgeries in the span of 16 months when I moved in and wasn't exactly in shape to build my own house.
- sombremesa 5y ago
  It would seem that your home fell within the 90% of homes that are supposedly crap.
- ErikVandeWater 5y ago
  "Crap" is largely a function of consumer preference. Even with a Consumer Reports subscription, people will ignore red flags and buy a car that's fun or cheap. A good craftsman should be able to tell you how well a house is constructed before purchase. Not that I'm saying that would have been easy to fit into your schedule.
  - mint2 5y ago
    Not necessarily, when everything is standardized and mass market it become nearly impossible to find options that don’t follow the “norms”. New housing developers have little incentive to do anything beyond look like their competitors, which as also bland and standard and not designed for actual living. People don’t have any other options due to the housing shortages.
- czhu12 5y ago
  Maybe you’d appreciate the global supply chain that’s been built out so workers can manufacture goods for a tenth of the price it would be domestically, so other people halfway around the world can complain about shoddy craftsmanship. You have the option to purchase beautifully created hand crafted doors but then you’d probably complain about the prices being unreasonable. That’s always been the trade off hasn’t it.
thehappypm 5y ago
It worked for Ongo Gablogian!

gizmo686 5y ago

There is no such thing as building something yourself. When you make something, you use tools, materials and methods made by other people. The most important part of building something that isn't crap is being able to recognize the crap in what you are considering for use. Then deciding if you can contain the crap, or find a less crappy alternative.

u-rate 5y ago
Well you can actually build something yourself. Sure, someone else built e.g. the code editor you‘re using, but if you come up with an algorithm yourself, you did, by definition, build it yourself.
- gizmo686 5y ago
  If you create an algorithm, it is likely based on previous algorithms you learned, and millenia of mathametics. To implement it in a computer, you likely rely on an operating system to run on, layers of userspace libraries, layers of firmware, many independent hardware components. An electrical supply.
francisofascii 5y ago
I think the point was, simply pointing out flaws is an activity that requires very little effort. A more laudable activity is to provide a better way or work toward making an improvement.
rurban 5y ago
There is such a thing as building by yourself. Otherwise you do end up with 90% crap, and there exist people which are annoyed by that. Eg build systems without autotools, cmake or even more horrible bloatware (meson, bazel, conan, scons, nix, ...). That's why e.g people ship header-only libs. That's why suckless exists. XML configs, YAML configs, SOAP, Java, ... oh my.

nonameiguess 5y ago

Is it? I'm looking around my house right now and virtually everything is shoddy craftsmanship from people who were either being underpaid or just didn't give a shit. The cabinetry isn't level with the floor, the doors don't quite fit the door frame, there are paint stains on the outside of the 4th-floor windows, some of my GFCI outlets were installed with the wires connected upside down and my electricity is blowing fuses all the time, LED bulbs that are supposed to last years last weeks instead, my roof had exposed nails that eventually rotted through and created leaks. Am I just supposed to build everything I own myself from scratch? I have a full-time job. I was also coming off three spine surgeries in the span of 16 months when I moved in and wasn't exactly in shape to build my own house.

sombremesa 5y ago
It would seem that your home fell within the 90% of homes that are supposedly crap.
ErikVandeWater 5y ago
"Crap" is largely a function of consumer preference. Even with a Consumer Reports subscription, people will ignore red flags and buy a car that's fun or cheap. A good craftsman should be able to tell you how well a house is constructed before purchase. Not that I'm saying that would have been easy to fit into your schedule.
- mint2 5y ago
  Not necessarily, when everything is standardized and mass market it become nearly impossible to find options that don’t follow the “norms”. New housing developers have little incentive to do anything beyond look like their competitors, which as also bland and standard and not designed for actual living. People don’t have any other options due to the housing shortages.
czhu12 5y ago
Maybe you’d appreciate the global supply chain that’s been built out so workers can manufacture goods for a tenth of the price it would be domestically, so other people halfway around the world can complain about shoddy craftsmanship. You have the option to purchase beautifully created hand crafted doors but then you’d probably complain about the prices being unreasonable. That’s always been the trade off hasn’t it.

thehappypm 5y ago

It worked for Ongo Gablogian!