11 ms·

With the Compute Modules, Raspberry Pi wanted to enter industrial/professional markets. However, in these markets, availability on short notice is a fundamenta

by pyb 5y ago

With the Compute Modules, Raspberry Pi wanted to enter industrial/professional markets. However, in these markets, availability on short notice is a fundamental requirement. The CMs appear mostly unobtainable, and it's not clear that the Pi foundation will culturally be able to remedy this in the long term ; their strength is elsewhere.

goodpoint 5y ago
In industrial markets *long-term* availability and robustness are also crucial. You don't want to develop and optimize your software stack for some hardware that will be out of order in 3 years. Olimex guarantees long-term availability and industrial standards. Raspberry Pi does not and is only suitable for the hobby market.
- geerlingguy 5y ago
  Raspberry Pi does have guarantees, for example if you look at the Compute Module 4 page [1] it reads "Compute Module 4 will remain in production until at least January 2028". Heck, even the 7-year-old Compute Module 1 will be in production until "at least January 2026". That's a 12-year product support lifecycle! [1] https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4/
- justin66 5y ago
  Raspberry Pi drops more SBCs on the floor than Olimex sells to customers.
mbreese 5y ago
I’d say consistency and long term availability would be the fundamental requirements. The Pi foundation has always seemed to have that part figured out. I don’t think we should necessary judge availability of any part based on the current environment.
- pyb 5y ago
  I am not referring to the current environment, from what I remember of the last few years, Pi parts have not been consistently available. Or am I misrepresenting?
  - geerlingguy 5y ago
    Until late 2020, maybe early 2021, I could always find the Pi model I needed from _somewhere_. And usually the local Micro Center had at least partial inventory of all the range of Pi models. Even midway into 2021, I could find at least a couple of each model at Micro Center, and more than half the SKUs would be in stock at most online retailers. As 2021 progressed, though, it became impossible to even find the less popular varieties in stock, to the point I haven't seen a Pi 4, CM3+, or CM4 in stock at my local Micro Center since September. I'm glad I picked up a couple spares and placed orders for a few 8GB modules in January—otherwise I'd still be waiting indefinitely. Pis are only one of many devices that are basically screwed by supply chain issues this year. Eben Upton mentioned that they're producing more than ever this year, but they've sold through and are still going to be fighting supply issues until 2023 [1]. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2021/08/20/raspberry_pi_supply_eben_upton_interview/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/08/20/raspberry_pi_supply_e...
    - pyb 5y ago
      But, beyond the short term, what do you reckon of the availability over the last 5 years?
      - geerlingguy 5y ago
        Over the last 5 years, availability was often spotty for the quarter or two post-launch, but stock always caught up. In fact, I remember in late 2020, the Micro Center near me had an end cap with over 100 Pi Zero W's hanging on it, a bunch of Pi 3 B+s below, about 30 Pi 4 model B's in a case (you had to ask for them), and about 25 CM3+'s on a shelf. Those were heady times; the pandemic (demand for hobby computers spiking) then the parts shortage were a 1-2 punch and now it seems only the Pi 400 can be reliably found in stock, along with some expensive kits that bundle a ton of things with the Pi 3 B+ or Pi 4.
flyinghamster 5y ago
Alternatively, most of the production has already been snapped up by large customer(s). NEC is offering them as an option for their commercial displays, for instance. They do have a history of underestimating demand, though. The original 26-pin Raspberry Pi was unobtanium for a long time after it was introduced. Some things never change. :) The pandemic-related supply chain woes can't help.
- pyb 5y ago
  Yes, many will remember the crazy waiting lists for the Pi 10 years ago. They did not expect to get a huge amount of demand so early.
- hhh 5y ago
  At release, we wanted to add support to our product line for the CM4 and needed some to test. However our MoQ was 200. Fast forward to today, we can’t really get CM4s or regular pis fast enough. We recently secured enough for the next 4 months (~800 Pi4 8GB,) but it’s always a battle to find large quantities. We have a vendor that assembles these for us, so they all come pre-assembled. We’ve swapped parts in our BOM for these at least 13 times in the past year. Change SD cards, change microHDMI adapters, power supply, change case, pi model, etc. Relatively painless, but becomes a problem when 30 days of back order is ~150 raspberry pis. I still wouldn’t even consider swapping to another device, though.
  - krolden 5y ago
    What's your product line if you don't mind me asking?
    - hhh 5y ago
      Zero-touch deployment kiosks, plug in and go
scottlamb 5y ago
> However, in these markets, availability on short notice is a fundamental requirement. The CMs appear mostly unobtainable, and it's not clear that the Pi foundation will culturally be able to remedy this in the long term ; their strength is elsewhere. I think all the other SBC vendors are even worse. E.g. seeedstudio is out of literally every Radxa product right now. 2021 is a tough year for niche products.
- 3np 5y ago
  Anecdotally, I’ve been ordering a bunch of stuff this year - hardkernel/radxa/friendlyarm/pine64. Apart from PINE64, I’ve been able to get almost every board I’ve had my eyes on - in due time. They can go in and out of stock in intervals of weeks or months. This is all ordering directly from vendors. Domestic redistributors seem to be dry all over though. I guess you could say seeeed falls in the middle of those. Basically if you can afford to wait and subscribe to when things come back in stock (if you’re unlucky), you’ll usually get your stuff in due time. It takes some discipline to not be part of the problem by ordering extras just in case. These small Asian vendors are very agile and have swapped out NICs and stuff to make up for missing components. On the slightly more industrial side it’s ridiculous, though. Due to Intel NIC shortage, PCEngines APU has been out of stock globally for I think 6 months and the manufacturer was transparent from the beginning that it would be a year or two before they are available. I think all of 2022 is already reserved.
justin66 5y ago
> The CMs appear mostly unobtainable To whom? There might be a world of difference between the experience of buying a CM4 at retail and the experiencing of reaching out to the RPi foundation with a bulk order.
- dmonitor 5y ago
  My boss was lamenting how projects would have to be pushed back because they are unavailable

by pyb 5y ago

goodpoint 5y ago

In industrial markets *long-term* availability and robustness are also crucial. You don't want to develop and optimize your software stack for some hardware that will be out of order in 3 years. Olimex guarantees long-term availability and industrial standards. Raspberry Pi does not and is only suitable for the hobby market.

geerlingguy 5y ago
Raspberry Pi does have guarantees, for example if you look at the Compute Module 4 page [1] it reads "Compute Module 4 will remain in production until at least January 2028". Heck, even the 7-year-old Compute Module 1 will be in production until "at least January 2026". That's a 12-year product support lifecycle! [1] https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/compute-module-4/
justin66 5y ago
Raspberry Pi drops more SBCs on the floor than Olimex sells to customers.

mbreese 5y ago

I’d say consistency and long term availability would be the fundamental requirements. The Pi foundation has always seemed to have that part figured out. I don’t think we should necessary judge availability of any part based on the current environment.

pyb 5y ago
I am not referring to the current environment, from what I remember of the last few years, Pi parts have not been consistently available. Or am I misrepresenting?
- geerlingguy 5y ago
  Until late 2020, maybe early 2021, I could always find the Pi model I needed from _somewhere_. And usually the local Micro Center had at least partial inventory of all the range of Pi models. Even midway into 2021, I could find at least a couple of each model at Micro Center, and more than half the SKUs would be in stock at most online retailers. As 2021 progressed, though, it became impossible to even find the less popular varieties in stock, to the point I haven't seen a Pi 4, CM3+, or CM4 in stock at my local Micro Center since September. I'm glad I picked up a couple spares and placed orders for a few 8GB modules in January—otherwise I'd still be waiting indefinitely. Pis are only one of many devices that are basically screwed by supply chain issues this year. Eben Upton mentioned that they're producing more than ever this year, but they've sold through and are still going to be fighting supply issues until 2023 [1]. [1] https://www.theregister.com/2021/08/20/raspberry_pi_supply_eben_upton_interview/ https://www.theregister.com/2021/08/20/raspberry_pi_supply_e...
  - pyb 5y ago
    But, beyond the short term, what do you reckon of the availability over the last 5 years?
    - geerlingguy 5y ago
      Over the last 5 years, availability was often spotty for the quarter or two post-launch, but stock always caught up. In fact, I remember in late 2020, the Micro Center near me had an end cap with over 100 Pi Zero W's hanging on it, a bunch of Pi 3 B+s below, about 30 Pi 4 model B's in a case (you had to ask for them), and about 25 CM3+'s on a shelf. Those were heady times; the pandemic (demand for hobby computers spiking) then the parts shortage were a 1-2 punch and now it seems only the Pi 400 can be reliably found in stock, along with some expensive kits that bundle a ton of things with the Pi 3 B+ or Pi 4.

flyinghamster 5y ago

Alternatively, most of the production has already been snapped up by large customer(s). NEC is offering them as an option for their commercial displays, for instance. They do have a history of underestimating demand, though. The original 26-pin Raspberry Pi was unobtanium for a long time after it was introduced. Some things never change. :) The pandemic-related supply chain woes can't help.

pyb 5y ago
Yes, many will remember the crazy waiting lists for the Pi 10 years ago. They did not expect to get a huge amount of demand so early.
hhh 5y ago
At release, we wanted to add support to our product line for the CM4 and needed some to test. However our MoQ was 200. Fast forward to today, we can’t really get CM4s or regular pis fast enough. We recently secured enough for the next 4 months (~800 Pi4 8GB,) but it’s always a battle to find large quantities. We have a vendor that assembles these for us, so they all come pre-assembled. We’ve swapped parts in our BOM for these at least 13 times in the past year. Change SD cards, change microHDMI adapters, power supply, change case, pi model, etc. Relatively painless, but becomes a problem when 30 days of back order is ~150 raspberry pis. I still wouldn’t even consider swapping to another device, though.
- krolden 5y ago
  What's your product line if you don't mind me asking?
  - hhh 5y ago
    Zero-touch deployment kiosks, plug in and go

scottlamb 5y ago

> However, in these markets, availability on short notice is a fundamental requirement. The CMs appear mostly unobtainable, and it's not clear that the Pi foundation will culturally be able to remedy this in the long term ; their strength is elsewhere. I think all the other SBC vendors are even worse. E.g. seeedstudio is out of literally every Radxa product right now. 2021 is a tough year for niche products.

3np 5y ago
Anecdotally, I’ve been ordering a bunch of stuff this year - hardkernel/radxa/friendlyarm/pine64. Apart from PINE64, I’ve been able to get almost every board I’ve had my eyes on - in due time. They can go in and out of stock in intervals of weeks or months. This is all ordering directly from vendors. Domestic redistributors seem to be dry all over though. I guess you could say seeeed falls in the middle of those. Basically if you can afford to wait and subscribe to when things come back in stock (if you’re unlucky), you’ll usually get your stuff in due time. It takes some discipline to not be part of the problem by ordering extras just in case. These small Asian vendors are very agile and have swapped out NICs and stuff to make up for missing components. On the slightly more industrial side it’s ridiculous, though. Due to Intel NIC shortage, PCEngines APU has been out of stock globally for I think 6 months and the manufacturer was transparent from the beginning that it would be a year or two before they are available. I think all of 2022 is already reserved.

justin66 5y ago

> The CMs appear mostly unobtainable To whom? There might be a world of difference between the experience of buying a CM4 at retail and the experiencing of reaching out to the RPi foundation with a bulk order.

dmonitor 5y ago
My boss was lamenting how projects would have to be pushed back because they are unavailable