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You should take a hard look at the criminal justice system of those 'actually progressive' countries because they look a lot more like California than they do T

by cmh89 5y ago

You should take a hard look at the criminal justice system of those 'actually progressive' countries because they look a lot more like California than they do Texas. They tend to spend their money on the social safety net and provide behavioral and physical health care to all people, which is why they don't have a lot of the same issues we do. Crime is up everywhere in this country. We jail tons of people in the US and its gotten us absolutely nothing.

diogenescynic 5y ago
People were sure a lot safer before meth and heroin were decriminalized. If anything that’s gotten us nowhere. No other country allows people to just sit on the sidewalk and smoke meth and shoot heroin and break into cars and shoplift to support their habit. We have the worst of all outcomes. The champagne Neo-liberals who advocate for this stuff don’t have to live with the consequences. It’s all woke virtue signaling. Sadly it’s the drug addicts and mentally ill who suffer since they are just constantly let to spiral further downward. There are zero guard rails to individual behavior anymore. This is Ancapistan, not some progressive utopia.
- cmh89 5y ago
  > People were sure a lot safer before meth and heroin were decriminalized. I'd love to see some actual data on this. > No other country allows people to just sit on the sidewalk and smoke meth and shoot heroin and break into cars and shoplift to support their habit. No other country puts addiction treatment behind a huge financial wall either. America is broken and that's just a symptom of it. > It’s all woke virtue signaling Just as an aside, people who use 'woke' and 'virtue signal' really discredit themselves by using those terms. It telephones the reality that you probably consume a lot of conservative 'sky-is-falling' media that is designed to make you scared and reactionary. > Sadly it’s the drug addicts and mentally ill who suffer since they are just constantly let to spiral further downward Is your thought that being locked in a jail is somehow better for them? You don't need to pretend that you actually care what happens to them.
  - diebeforei485 5y ago
    Virtue signalling is a real thing. You see it often with things like land acknowledgements[1][2], for example. As far as whether people should be allowed to rot on the streets, stealing from local businesses to feed their drug addiction, and being sexually assaulted by their dealer - there are better alternatives. Behind bars is one option, Lanterman-Petris-Short conservatorship[3] (not the Britney Spears type) is another. 1. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/native-americans-land-acknowledgments-cec/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/native-americans-land-ackn... 2. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/against-land-acknowledgements-native-american/620820/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/against-la... 3. https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/07/britney-spears-conservatorship/ https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/07/britney-spears-conser...
    - cmh89 5y ago
      > Virtue signalling is a real thing. You see it often with things like land acknowledgements[1][2], for example. Of course its a thing. It discredits you because its a term conservatives have been trained to use when they don't like a concept or don't want to think about a new concept. Your land acknowledgement example is actually great. It's intellectually weak to claim that everyone who does land acknowledgements is just virtue signaling. It implies that you have, or generally all conservatives have, insight into the motivations of hundreds of thousands of people. Here is the definition of 'virtue signaling' "the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue." The practice might not be particularly useful, or even an empty gesture, but that doesn't make it virtue signaling. Virtue signals are done for your own benefit. You can project onto folks doing land acknowledgements but you to write them all off as virtue signaling is really just sad. You should get to know some tribal members, because they do it too. I've been to many meetings where tribal members lead the land acknowledgement. Are they just virtue signaling too? > As far as whether people should be allowed to rot on the streets, stealing from local businesses to feed their drug addiction, and being sexually assaulted by their dealer - there are better alternatives. Behind bars is one option, Lanterman-Petris-Short conservatorship[3] (not the Britney Spears type) is another. As with all things, solutions to problems are easy to find when you aren't restricted by reality. The War on Drugs didn't work for the first 60 years, I don't know why you think it'd work now. I also think you are greatly over estimating how willing judges anywhere are to institutionalize people, especially when they are just drug addicts. The only real solution to the problem is to have single-payer health care and massively increasing spending on mental and behavioral health by the federal government. Unfortunately with the republican party more or less in control, I don't think we will see an increase in any spending that helps Americans any time soon.

by cmh89 5y ago

diogenescynic 5y ago

People were sure a lot safer before meth and heroin were decriminalized. If anything that’s gotten us nowhere. No other country allows people to just sit on the sidewalk and smoke meth and shoot heroin and break into cars and shoplift to support their habit. We have the worst of all outcomes. The champagne Neo-liberals who advocate for this stuff don’t have to live with the consequences. It’s all woke virtue signaling. Sadly it’s the drug addicts and mentally ill who suffer since they are just constantly let to spiral further downward. There are zero guard rails to individual behavior anymore. This is Ancapistan, not some progressive utopia.

cmh89 5y ago
> People were sure a lot safer before meth and heroin were decriminalized. I'd love to see some actual data on this. > No other country allows people to just sit on the sidewalk and smoke meth and shoot heroin and break into cars and shoplift to support their habit. No other country puts addiction treatment behind a huge financial wall either. America is broken and that's just a symptom of it. > It’s all woke virtue signaling Just as an aside, people who use 'woke' and 'virtue signal' really discredit themselves by using those terms. It telephones the reality that you probably consume a lot of conservative 'sky-is-falling' media that is designed to make you scared and reactionary. > Sadly it’s the drug addicts and mentally ill who suffer since they are just constantly let to spiral further downward Is your thought that being locked in a jail is somehow better for them? You don't need to pretend that you actually care what happens to them.
- diebeforei485 5y ago
  Virtue signalling is a real thing. You see it often with things like land acknowledgements[1][2], for example. As far as whether people should be allowed to rot on the streets, stealing from local businesses to feed their drug addiction, and being sexually assaulted by their dealer - there are better alternatives. Behind bars is one option, Lanterman-Petris-Short conservatorship[3] (not the Britney Spears type) is another. 1. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/native-americans-land-acknowledgments-cec/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/native-americans-land-ackn... 2. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/against-land-acknowledgements-native-american/620820/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/against-la... 3. https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/07/britney-spears-conservatorship/ https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/07/britney-spears-conser...
  - cmh89 5y ago
    > Virtue signalling is a real thing. You see it often with things like land acknowledgements[1][2], for example. Of course its a thing. It discredits you because its a term conservatives have been trained to use when they don't like a concept or don't want to think about a new concept. Your land acknowledgement example is actually great. It's intellectually weak to claim that everyone who does land acknowledgements is just virtue signaling. It implies that you have, or generally all conservatives have, insight into the motivations of hundreds of thousands of people. Here is the definition of 'virtue signaling' "the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue." The practice might not be particularly useful, or even an empty gesture, but that doesn't make it virtue signaling. Virtue signals are done for your own benefit. You can project onto folks doing land acknowledgements but you to write them all off as virtue signaling is really just sad. You should get to know some tribal members, because they do it too. I've been to many meetings where tribal members lead the land acknowledgement. Are they just virtue signaling too? > As far as whether people should be allowed to rot on the streets, stealing from local businesses to feed their drug addiction, and being sexually assaulted by their dealer - there are better alternatives. Behind bars is one option, Lanterman-Petris-Short conservatorship[3] (not the Britney Spears type) is another. As with all things, solutions to problems are easy to find when you aren't restricted by reality. The War on Drugs didn't work for the first 60 years, I don't know why you think it'd work now. I also think you are greatly over estimating how willing judges anywhere are to institutionalize people, especially when they are just drug addicts. The only real solution to the problem is to have single-payer health care and massively increasing spending on mental and behavioral health by the federal government. Unfortunately with the republican party more or less in control, I don't think we will see an increase in any spending that helps Americans any time soon.