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>And yet, their jobs are ESSENTIAL and we need people to do them even though they're grueling and underpaid. I think this touches on an uncomfortable point tha

by bumby 5y ago

>And yet, their jobs are ESSENTIAL and we need people to do them even though they're grueling and underpaid. I think this touches on an uncomfortable point that many people don’t acknowledge: our current system generally* pays people according to how much they contribute to the economy and not by how much they contribute to society. The scalable nature of software means developers can disproportionately add value to the economy, even while sometimes simultaneously working on projects that could be arguably a net negative for society. * yes, we can all point to people who get paid handsomely without adding anything substantive, but general rules are meant to be applied, well…generally

lucasyvas 5y ago
I've felt for a long time that the reason software is not fulfilling its promise is because it has been tied exclusively to capitalist goals. The incentive structure is completely broken. I think a balance probably exists, but we are badly missing the mark.
- bumby 5y ago
  Do you think that is still the case? I can think of all kinds of applications where software can contribute to non-profit driven goals. Healthcare, government, energy/climate, etc. I think the problem is it becomes hard for some to take those jobs when they could instead work in, say, social media or finance for many multiples of the pay.
bradstewart 5y ago
At the risk of adding to his number 12... this is capitalism.
- bumby 5y ago
  I actually think there’s a more nuanced perspective. Capitalism just means we can monetarily reward what we value. Capitalism is a means, not an end. So if the GP has an issue with what is being observed, I think the author’s remark of “this is capitalism” stops short. A better question is what is at the root of one position being valued over another? E.g., if we really value teachers as much as we collectively say we do, why aren’t teaching colleges the most competitive and their positions the most valued? The U.S. often sends their best and brightest to tech, consulting, law, and medicine. Other societies send theirs to education. Both can occur under capitalism. I would argue it’s not “capitalism” but that the economy is most valued. Capitalism could just as well make social workers the highest paid individuals if there was a different value construct.
namdnay 5y ago
To be more precise, it pays people for their differentiated contribution to the economy. If there’s no one to open the office doors in the morning, productivity is 0. Does that make the security guard the highest paid staff? Of course not, because he’s easily replaceable. A developer whose absence will only lose the company 1k a day may be paid 500 a day, because the few people who can bring in those 1k all want more

by bumby 5y ago

lucasyvas 5y ago

I've felt for a long time that the reason software is not fulfilling its promise is because it has been tied exclusively to capitalist goals. The incentive structure is completely broken. I think a balance probably exists, but we are badly missing the mark.

bumby 5y ago
Do you think that is still the case? I can think of all kinds of applications where software can contribute to non-profit driven goals. Healthcare, government, energy/climate, etc. I think the problem is it becomes hard for some to take those jobs when they could instead work in, say, social media or finance for many multiples of the pay.

bradstewart 5y ago

At the risk of adding to his number 12... this is capitalism.

bumby 5y ago
I actually think there’s a more nuanced perspective. Capitalism just means we can monetarily reward what we value. Capitalism is a means, not an end. So if the GP has an issue with what is being observed, I think the author’s remark of “this is capitalism” stops short. A better question is what is at the root of one position being valued over another? E.g., if we really value teachers as much as we collectively say we do, why aren’t teaching colleges the most competitive and their positions the most valued? The U.S. often sends their best and brightest to tech, consulting, law, and medicine. Other societies send theirs to education. Both can occur under capitalism. I would argue it’s not “capitalism” but that the economy is most valued. Capitalism could just as well make social workers the highest paid individuals if there was a different value construct.

namdnay 5y ago

To be more precise, it pays people for their differentiated contribution to the economy. If there’s no one to open the office doors in the morning, productivity is 0. Does that make the security guard the highest paid staff? Of course not, because he’s easily replaceable. A developer whose absence will only lose the company 1k a day may be paid 500 a day, because the few people who can bring in those 1k all want more