4 ms·

Maybe I'm "spoiled" because in Germany there's a need to publish an imprint on all websites that are somehow "commercial" (having ads on it would be enough), bu

Maybe I'm "spoiled" because in Germany there's a need to publish an imprint on all websites that are somehow "commercial" (having ads on it would be enough), but this is highly "dubious". No contact information (as in "who runs this?") is provided on the site. Privacy policy is not GDPR compliant (no contact information provided), no names, nothing. This might be fine for a personal blog, but for doing business this is (at least for me) a no-go.

bserge 5y ago
If they wanted to be dubious, they could've put up some fake/stolen information. Then you wouldn't question it, which just makes the whole thing rather useless. I always found it funny how people trust Stiftung Warentest. It's the German equivalent to "Which?", but at least Brits know they're full of shit.
paulcole 5y ago
Would you be happier if the site prevented you from viewing it?
- dspillett 5y ago
  I would. It would save me the time spotting the red flags and backing away anyway. Though a couple of relevant regulations state this should not be done, and no site is going to send away a potential customer by saying “we don't want to follow your laws/regulations so can't do business with you” when they can instead just get away with just ignoring, or in the case of sites run from elsewhere in the world claim to have no no knowledge of, those regulations.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > no site is going to send away a potential customer by saying “we don't want to follow your laws/regulations so can't do business with you” Many local US-based TV news/newspaper sites do this albeit with a slightly more opaque message. And customer still mostly fits because these sites are ad-supported (usually with a mix of local/non-local ads.
- martin_a 5y ago
  It's not about viewing/trying to track me, but we are talking about somebody trying to sell me something. Would you feel fine paying around 100 bucks to... well... whom? Just a website with no contact information, no names, adresses, business registration, whatever? As far as I can see, this could very likely be a scam of some sort, because anybody who's into doing "real", honest, business would be fine with giving his name and address.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > Would you feel fine paying around 100 bucks to... well... whom? I’d feel fine deciding if I feel fine. That’s also why I have a credit card. I can get scammed and not be out $100.
    - martin_a 5y ago
      Ok, so you get the item and it explodes in your face. Whom do you sue?
      - paulcole 5y ago
        Probably nobody!
        martin_a 5y ago
        And you don't think there should at least be some possibility to hold someone liable in case something goes _terribly_ wrong?
        paulcole 5y ago
        Yes, but I’m also aware that the possibility is roughly 0% if a person is truly determined to run a dangerous scam, regardless of what regulations are put in place.
thargor90 5y ago
Yes, we are spoiled. I'm not sure it's even possible to have a valid contract with an unknown party...
- FDSGSG 5y ago
  "Operator of buskill.in" does not seem like an unknown party?
  - martin_a 5y ago
    It is. What's the postal address of the "operator of buskill.in" so I can file claims with him?
    - FDSGSG 5y ago
      info@buskill.in
      - martin_a 5y ago
        You seem to misunderstand what a postal address is. The provided information on this website is not enough to do legally binding business (at least in some parts of Europe, it's not only Germany).
        FDSGSG 5y ago
        In Germany you can enter into a verbal contract without any exchange of personal details. Why would a website be treated differently? I'm curious. As far as I understand German law is very flexible about what constitutes a valid legally binding contract.
        martin_a 5y ago
        Chapter 2 and 3 of the "BGB" contain several paragraphs which define legal rights and obligations for doing business via the internet or telephone. §312f for example defines that customers must receive "a copy of a contractual document signed by the contracting parties in such a way that their identity is identifiable" (translated via DeepL). A simple mail address is not an identity in German law, especially not when doing business with B2C as you always have a 14 day period to cancel your order (except for downloads and various, special products). edit: If you want to cancel, you must be able to do so via (offline) mail, too.
Symbiote 5y ago
It seems to be from (or in partnership with) https://www.altshift.in/ https://www.altshift.in/ in Estonia, leading to https://twitter.com/MichaelAltfield https://twitter.com/MichaelAltfield
- maltfield 5y ago
  Yes :) BusKill is an open-source project. AltShift is my company.
maltfield 5y ago
Hi martin_a, I'm Michael Altfield. I started the BusKill project in January 2020 with the following article on my blog: * https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2020/01/02/buskill-laptop-kill-cord-dead-man-switch/ https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2020/01/02/buskill-laptop-k... The above article front-paged on Hacker News, and I got a lot of people asking me how they could buy one and use it in on Windows and MacOS. Over the past year, many people have contributed in porting it to those platforms (I originally just designed it for myself, and I use Linux). The BusKill project is not owned by me. All our work is open-source, and it's owned by the community. As such, I don't put just my name on it because it's not just my work. But if you dig around, you do see my name pop-up in a few places. The list of contributors can be found on our documentation's "Attribution" section. * https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/attribution.html https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/attribution.ht... The main website is mostly just a landing page, blog, and a store so people can buy with cryptocurrencies and Tor since CrowdSupply doesn't run an Onion Service and doesn't accept crypto payments. Not everyone who has contributed to the BusKill project is still active, but some of us are. You can find our names & photos at the bottom of the Crowd Supply campaign page: * https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill Contact information is provided on the website. There's a link to it in the Footer* and on the GitHub page. Not sure how I can make that more clear: * https://www.buskill.in/contact/ https://www.buskill.in/contact/
- Symbiote 5y ago
  I'm not familiar with the German rules, but GDPR Art. 14 §1 says: > Where personal data relating to a data subject are collected from the data subject, the controller shall, at the time when personal data are obtained, provide the data subject with all of the following information: > (a) the identity and the contact details of the controller and, where applicable, of the controller’s representative; Usually, these contact details are in the privacy policy. It's certainly unusual for a website to omit this, and in most cases I wouldn't buy from a site where it's missing. In this particular case, maybe it's less strange. However, I still wouldn't order without knowing from where the package will be sent. Something from Estonia arrives here without any import taxes, something from outside the EU can do (the CrowdSupply site says they handle VAT), but can also attract high processing fees. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-13-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-13-gdpr/ (Note I'm not interested in buying a BusKill; I'm just procrastinating.)

bserge 5y ago

If they wanted to be dubious, they could've put up some fake/stolen information. Then you wouldn't question it, which just makes the whole thing rather useless. I always found it funny how people trust Stiftung Warentest. It's the German equivalent to "Which?", but at least Brits know they're full of shit.

paulcole 5y ago

Would you be happier if the site prevented you from viewing it?

dspillett 5y ago
I would. It would save me the time spotting the red flags and backing away anyway. Though a couple of relevant regulations state this should not be done, and no site is going to send away a potential customer by saying “we don't want to follow your laws/regulations so can't do business with you” when they can instead just get away with just ignoring, or in the case of sites run from elsewhere in the world claim to have no no knowledge of, those regulations.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > no site is going to send away a potential customer by saying “we don't want to follow your laws/regulations so can't do business with you” Many local US-based TV news/newspaper sites do this albeit with a slightly more opaque message. And customer still mostly fits because these sites are ad-supported (usually with a mix of local/non-local ads.
martin_a 5y ago
It's not about viewing/trying to track me, but we are talking about somebody trying to sell me something. Would you feel fine paying around 100 bucks to... well... whom? Just a website with no contact information, no names, adresses, business registration, whatever? As far as I can see, this could very likely be a scam of some sort, because anybody who's into doing "real", honest, business would be fine with giving his name and address.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > Would you feel fine paying around 100 bucks to... well... whom? I’d feel fine deciding if I feel fine. That’s also why I have a credit card. I can get scammed and not be out $100.
  - martin_a 5y ago
    Ok, so you get the item and it explodes in your face. Whom do you sue?
    - paulcole 5y ago
      Probably nobody!
      - martin_a 5y ago
        And you don't think there should at least be some possibility to hold someone liable in case something goes _terribly_ wrong?
        paulcole 5y ago
        Yes, but I’m also aware that the possibility is roughly 0% if a person is truly determined to run a dangerous scam, regardless of what regulations are put in place.

thargor90 5y ago

Yes, we are spoiled. I'm not sure it's even possible to have a valid contract with an unknown party...

FDSGSG 5y ago
"Operator of buskill.in" does not seem like an unknown party?
- martin_a 5y ago
  It is. What's the postal address of the "operator of buskill.in" so I can file claims with him?
  - FDSGSG 5y ago
    info@buskill.in
    - martin_a 5y ago
      You seem to misunderstand what a postal address is. The provided information on this website is not enough to do legally binding business (at least in some parts of Europe, it's not only Germany).
      - FDSGSG 5y ago
        In Germany you can enter into a verbal contract without any exchange of personal details. Why would a website be treated differently? I'm curious. As far as I understand German law is very flexible about what constitutes a valid legally binding contract.
        martin_a 5y ago
        Chapter 2 and 3 of the "BGB" contain several paragraphs which define legal rights and obligations for doing business via the internet or telephone. §312f for example defines that customers must receive "a copy of a contractual document signed by the contracting parties in such a way that their identity is identifiable" (translated via DeepL). A simple mail address is not an identity in German law, especially not when doing business with B2C as you always have a 14 day period to cancel your order (except for downloads and various, special products). edit: If you want to cancel, you must be able to do so via (offline) mail, too.

Symbiote 5y ago

It seems to be from (or in partnership with) https://www.altshift.in/ https://www.altshift.in/ in Estonia, leading to https://twitter.com/MichaelAltfield https://twitter.com/MichaelAltfield

maltfield 5y ago
Yes :) BusKill is an open-source project. AltShift is my company.

maltfield 5y ago

Hi martin_a, I'm Michael Altfield. I started the BusKill project in January 2020 with the following article on my blog: * https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2020/01/02/buskill-laptop-kill-cord-dead-man-switch/ https://tech.michaelaltfield.net/2020/01/02/buskill-laptop-k... The above article front-paged on Hacker News, and I got a lot of people asking me how they could buy one and use it in on Windows and MacOS. Over the past year, many people have contributed in porting it to those platforms (I originally just designed it for myself, and I use Linux). The BusKill project is not owned by me. All our work is open-source, and it's owned by the community. As such, I don't put just my name on it because it's not just my work. But if you dig around, you do see my name pop-up in a few places. The list of contributors can be found on our documentation's "Attribution" section. * https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/attribution.html https://docs.buskill.in/buskill-app/en/stable/attribution.ht... The main website is mostly just a landing page, blog, and a store so people can buy with cryptocurrencies and Tor since CrowdSupply doesn't run an Onion Service and doesn't accept crypto payments. Not everyone who has contributed to the BusKill project is still active, but some of us are. You can find our names & photos at the bottom of the Crowd Supply campaign page: * https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill https://www.crowdsupply.com/alt-shift/buskill Contact information is provided on the website. There's a link to it in the Footer* and on the GitHub page. Not sure how I can make that more clear: * https://www.buskill.in/contact/ https://www.buskill.in/contact/

Symbiote 5y ago
I'm not familiar with the German rules, but GDPR Art. 14 §1 says: > Where personal data relating to a data subject are collected from the data subject, the controller shall, at the time when personal data are obtained, provide the data subject with all of the following information: > (a) the identity and the contact details of the controller and, where applicable, of the controller’s representative; Usually, these contact details are in the privacy policy. It's certainly unusual for a website to omit this, and in most cases I wouldn't buy from a site where it's missing. In this particular case, maybe it's less strange. However, I still wouldn't order without knowing from where the package will be sent. Something from Estonia arrives here without any import taxes, something from outside the EU can do (the CrowdSupply site says they handle VAT), but can also attract high processing fees. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-13-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-13-gdpr/ (Note I'm not interested in buying a BusKill; I'm just procrastinating.)