5 ms·

This is the reaction the tech industry has bred with the only options ever being "Yes, now" or "Later". People are used to the industry not taking no for an ans

by Macha 5y ago

This is the reaction the tech industry has bred with the only options ever being "Yes, now" or "Later". People are used to the industry not taking no for an answer, and so this pattern matches to every other time the industry has "backed off for now" (see also: MS pushing edge as default browser, Apple boiling the frog with gatekeeper, Whatsapp/Facebook data sharing, Google+ account migrations for YouTube accounts)

pzo 5y ago
I have been literally spammed in the last month on my iPhone (even though still using iOS 14) with apple notifications asking me "Do you agree to new terms of agreements? <Yes> <We will ask you later>" (that's regarding new iCloud terms). I was always careful not to miss click and not to agree. No matter what few days later I kept giving the same notification. The stopped for some reason after few months and now I don't know if: 1) I agree by accident 2) They thankfully stopped nagging me 3) Or they buggy implemented it and even though I kept cancelling after few tries they assumed I agreed.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  I'm still tapping "later" on WhatsApp's ToS changes. I wonder how much longer I can get away with it.
  - najqh 5y ago
    A few weeks ago I was forced to accept or I couldn't keep using the app at all.
    - skinkestek 5y ago
      What have you switched to now?
      - najqh 5y ago
        I haven't switched, I accepted them because I don't really care. I just wanted to see for how long I could push it.
        skinkestek 5y ago
        At the moment Facebook bought them I started researching alternatives and I am happy to say that a couple of hundred friends and family of mine have switched and not a single person has tried to reach me on WhatsApp for months until I uninstalled it.
  - helloworld11 5y ago
    Likewise. I've managed to keep that little shit show in limbo for several months now. Wonder the same thing.
- Someone 5y ago
  I don’t think cloud services realistically can do something else than forcing all users to accept the latest license. If they don’t, they end up having data from different licenses. If you have many of those, figuring out what you can and cannot do with data becomes a nightmare. You could get questions such as “Can you make a backup in country C for user U? He’s under the 2019 terms, so in principle, yes, but alas, user V has shared content with U, and V still is under the 2017 terms. Also, U has been in the EU for the past weeks, so EU regulations apply, at least as far as we catered for them in the 2019 terms” Not changing the terms isn’t an option, either, as they have to be changed to cater for changes in laws. If you operate in 100+ countries,
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    > If they don’t, they end up having data from different licenses. If you have many of those, figuring out what you can and cannot do with data becomes a nightmare. That's their problem to figure out. If they can't then they should terminate customers who don't agree and ship them their data. Obviously they'll never do that since it would be a terrible look and they'd lose customers, because they want to have their cake and eat it, too. I am not sympathetic to how hard it would be for a corporation to do something. "It's too hard" is not an excuse, not least of all if they're a multi-billion dollar corporation.
    - Someone 5y ago
      We don’t use that kind of reasoning with other service providers. If, for example, your bank changes their terms, your electricity provider increases prices, landlords increase rent, etc. they will inform you and often silently enrol you in the new scheme. Cancelling the agreement always (and maybe not even that) is an option, but that is opt-out, not opt-in. So, why would cloud providers be different?
      - Macha 5y ago
        My bank grandfathered me onto an account TOS for a decade before giving me a "move to our modern accounts or close" ultimatum, my electricity provider has legal limits to what the the unit rate and landlords are limited to one rate increase every 12 months, which in my city also has its amount limited. If my phone, internet or TV company wants to increase prices that voids any contractual lock in period I may have been held to otherwise. I work for a B2B company and we do gate features depending on which revision of the TOS the client has agreed to. In short, other countries outside the US _do_ hold other service providers to similar standards.
adrr 5y ago
This isn't a revenue generating initiative. It is different than your examples. Apple is trying to make two groups happy, governments and customers. Governments don't like like encryption(assuming Apple starts encrypting iCloud photos with device based keys) and consumers don't like governments snooping on them. If you're were the CEO of apple who would you favor knowing either group could cost you money. Governments could prioritize antitrust initiatives against apple and consumers could stop buying apple products.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  > knowing either group could cost you money I'm not a businessman, but I believe Apple's main customers are not governments, so I suppose that it's not good business for Apple to ignore their users' preferences. Governments in most of Apple's marketplaces change every few years, after all.
  - adrr 5y ago
    Why they pulled the scanning was because of customer backlash. Fallout is yet to be seen what governments especially when Apple switches to not having access the keys to decrypt iCloud photos and documents. And moves iCloud backups to being encrypted. One high profile crime especially involving children and we’ll see government propose escrowed keys. UK is already proposing it. I am not saying it’s right or wrong. I do believe consumers anger at Apple is the wrong target. If they want change, get governments to pass laws that guarantee encryption as a “right”.
    - BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
      > Why they pulled the scanning They pulled documents about the scanning, but we don't actually know they pulled the scanning itself. > when Apple switches to not having access the keys to decrypt iCloud photos and documents. We don't know that they are/were going to do that either. It's just a popular 'fan theory.'
      - 5y ago

by Macha 5y ago

pzo 5y ago

I have been literally spammed in the last month on my iPhone (even though still using iOS 14) with apple notifications asking me "Do you agree to new terms of agreements? <Yes> <We will ask you later>" (that's regarding new iCloud terms). I was always careful not to miss click and not to agree. No matter what few days later I kept giving the same notification. The stopped for some reason after few months and now I don't know if: 1) I agree by accident 2) They thankfully stopped nagging me 3) Or they buggy implemented it and even though I kept cancelling after few tries they assumed I agreed.

AlexandrB 5y ago
I'm still tapping "later" on WhatsApp's ToS changes. I wonder how much longer I can get away with it.
- najqh 5y ago
  A few weeks ago I was forced to accept or I couldn't keep using the app at all.
  - skinkestek 5y ago
    What have you switched to now?
    - najqh 5y ago
      I haven't switched, I accepted them because I don't really care. I just wanted to see for how long I could push it.
      - skinkestek 5y ago
        At the moment Facebook bought them I started researching alternatives and I am happy to say that a couple of hundred friends and family of mine have switched and not a single person has tried to reach me on WhatsApp for months until I uninstalled it.
- helloworld11 5y ago
  Likewise. I've managed to keep that little shit show in limbo for several months now. Wonder the same thing.
Someone 5y ago
I don’t think cloud services realistically can do something else than forcing all users to accept the latest license. If they don’t, they end up having data from different licenses. If you have many of those, figuring out what you can and cannot do with data becomes a nightmare. You could get questions such as “Can you make a backup in country C for user U? He’s under the 2019 terms, so in principle, yes, but alas, user V has shared content with U, and V still is under the 2017 terms. Also, U has been in the EU for the past weeks, so EU regulations apply, at least as far as we catered for them in the 2019 terms” Not changing the terms isn’t an option, either, as they have to be changed to cater for changes in laws. If you operate in 100+ countries,
- nkrisc 5y ago
  > If they don’t, they end up having data from different licenses. If you have many of those, figuring out what you can and cannot do with data becomes a nightmare. That's their problem to figure out. If they can't then they should terminate customers who don't agree and ship them their data. Obviously they'll never do that since it would be a terrible look and they'd lose customers, because they want to have their cake and eat it, too. I am not sympathetic to how hard it would be for a corporation to do something. "It's too hard" is not an excuse, not least of all if they're a multi-billion dollar corporation.
  - Someone 5y ago
    We don’t use that kind of reasoning with other service providers. If, for example, your bank changes their terms, your electricity provider increases prices, landlords increase rent, etc. they will inform you and often silently enrol you in the new scheme. Cancelling the agreement always (and maybe not even that) is an option, but that is opt-out, not opt-in. So, why would cloud providers be different?
    - Macha 5y ago
      My bank grandfathered me onto an account TOS for a decade before giving me a "move to our modern accounts or close" ultimatum, my electricity provider has legal limits to what the the unit rate and landlords are limited to one rate increase every 12 months, which in my city also has its amount limited. If my phone, internet or TV company wants to increase prices that voids any contractual lock in period I may have been held to otherwise. I work for a B2B company and we do gate features depending on which revision of the TOS the client has agreed to. In short, other countries outside the US _do_ hold other service providers to similar standards.

adrr 5y ago

This isn't a revenue generating initiative. It is different than your examples. Apple is trying to make two groups happy, governments and customers. Governments don't like like encryption(assuming Apple starts encrypting iCloud photos with device based keys) and consumers don't like governments snooping on them. If you're were the CEO of apple who would you favor knowing either group could cost you money. Governments could prioritize antitrust initiatives against apple and consumers could stop buying apple products.

denton-scratch 5y ago
> knowing either group could cost you money I'm not a businessman, but I believe Apple's main customers are not governments, so I suppose that it's not good business for Apple to ignore their users' preferences. Governments in most of Apple's marketplaces change every few years, after all.
- adrr 5y ago
  Why they pulled the scanning was because of customer backlash. Fallout is yet to be seen what governments especially when Apple switches to not having access the keys to decrypt iCloud photos and documents. And moves iCloud backups to being encrypted. One high profile crime especially involving children and we’ll see government propose escrowed keys. UK is already proposing it. I am not saying it’s right or wrong. I do believe consumers anger at Apple is the wrong target. If they want change, get governments to pass laws that guarantee encryption as a “right”.
  - BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
    > Why they pulled the scanning They pulled documents about the scanning, but we don't actually know they pulled the scanning itself. > when Apple switches to not having access the keys to decrypt iCloud photos and documents. We don't know that they are/were going to do that either. It's just a popular 'fan theory.'
    - 5y ago