5 ms·

The difference is that there is only 1 IF statement or local/remote config flag that will enable this scanning on your device even if you don't use the iCloud p

The difference is that there is only 1 IF statement or local/remote config flag that will enable this scanning on your device even if you don't use the iCloud photo sharing feature. It is super well documented that Apple ALWAYS follows the laws of the land, so the scenario is that a government adds some new hashes that might not be CSAM as you and I define it but might be political stuff(but the citizens can't check). Also now that the code is there Apple can't refuse to add this hashes or enable the feature forcefully when a legal warrant for that territory is presented. some more config changes and it can start scanning for text in documents too.

threeseed 5y ago
Given that Apple wrote OSX, this scenario has been possible for over 20 years. And it hasn't eventuated. But yet now it is something to panic over ?
- simion314 5y ago
  Until recently you had a lot of freedom on your OSX device, you could install and uninstall whatever you wanted , you could have a firewall that blocked applications. On iOS and slowly on OSX this freedoms are lost, already when you open your computer, open an application Apple is notified (for your safety), only a few more steps are needed until you will get laptops with iOS like lockdowns and maybe a PRO expensive version for the ones that want the key for the gates.
  - jeromegv 5y ago
    You can blame them when that happens but it’s odd to blame OS X for being locked when clearly OS X is not… locked.
    - simion314 5y ago
      >You can blame them when that happens but it’s odd to blame OS X for being locked when clearly OS X is not… locked. OSX is getting more and more locked, iOS is locked so why shouldn't people complain when things get worse. I was just explaining that the excuse "OSX is 20 years old and it was not locked yet so it will never be locked q.e.d " , this is wrong, you can see clearly how things get more locked in steps and you don't have to wait untill last step to complain. Keep in mind that you have better keyboards on Apple laptops today because people complained, the CSAM shit was delayed because people complained, the Apple tax was lowered in some cases because developers and Epic complained, so complaining sometimes works.
quitit 5y ago
This argument falls exactly into the point I make about not understanding the implementation or the status quo. Here's what would need to change about the system to fulfil your requirements. 1. The local government would need to pass a law allowing such a change 2. The hashes would then need to come from the government. Instead of the two intersection of two independent CSAM databases. 3. The review process would need to redesigned and deployed to provide a lower threshold and permit the reviewers to see high resolution images. Neither of these changes are trivial. 4. The reports would then need to go to the government. 5. What's stopping these same governments from requesting such things from Google and Meta - both of which have comparable systems with lower oversight? Apple don't "ALWAYS follows the laws of the land", one can read into this with the recent "secret" agreement between Apple and China which detail the various ways that Apple hasn't complied with Chinese requests (e.g. the requests for source code.)
- dotancohen 5y ago
  I see that you don't live in Turkey. Or Lebanon. Or Egypt, or the United States, or Brazil, or any of tens of other nations where this exact scenario is not only plausible, but is of real concern.
  - quitit 5y ago
    Then you should already be gravely concerned because, as I've stated: Apple is last to the game here. Google and Meta each with significantly larger audiences than Apple are already doing this. Since Meta in particular is social media and the main source of casual political dis/information for the masses this would be the low hanging fruit that you're worried about. The vague "this is a serious concern because my government is shit" requires a person to ignore a lot in favour of a little.
    - cool_dude85 5y ago
      Sorry, my meta hardware is scanning client-side for CSAM? And you claim it's the same for google; can you tell me which Pixel is scanning client-side?

threeseed 5y ago

Given that Apple wrote OSX, this scenario has been possible for over 20 years. And it hasn't eventuated. But yet now it is something to panic over ?

simion314 5y ago
Until recently you had a lot of freedom on your OSX device, you could install and uninstall whatever you wanted , you could have a firewall that blocked applications. On iOS and slowly on OSX this freedoms are lost, already when you open your computer, open an application Apple is notified (for your safety), only a few more steps are needed until you will get laptops with iOS like lockdowns and maybe a PRO expensive version for the ones that want the key for the gates.
- jeromegv 5y ago
  You can blame them when that happens but it’s odd to blame OS X for being locked when clearly OS X is not… locked.
  - simion314 5y ago
    >You can blame them when that happens but it’s odd to blame OS X for being locked when clearly OS X is not… locked. OSX is getting more and more locked, iOS is locked so why shouldn't people complain when things get worse. I was just explaining that the excuse "OSX is 20 years old and it was not locked yet so it will never be locked q.e.d " , this is wrong, you can see clearly how things get more locked in steps and you don't have to wait untill last step to complain. Keep in mind that you have better keyboards on Apple laptops today because people complained, the CSAM shit was delayed because people complained, the Apple tax was lowered in some cases because developers and Epic complained, so complaining sometimes works.

quitit 5y ago

This argument falls exactly into the point I make about not understanding the implementation or the status quo. Here's what would need to change about the system to fulfil your requirements. 1. The local government would need to pass a law allowing such a change 2. The hashes would then need to come from the government. Instead of the two intersection of two independent CSAM databases. 3. The review process would need to redesigned and deployed to provide a lower threshold and permit the reviewers to see high resolution images. Neither of these changes are trivial. 4. The reports would then need to go to the government. 5. What's stopping these same governments from requesting such things from Google and Meta - both of which have comparable systems with lower oversight? Apple don't "ALWAYS follows the laws of the land", one can read into this with the recent "secret" agreement between Apple and China which detail the various ways that Apple hasn't complied with Chinese requests (e.g. the requests for source code.)

dotancohen 5y ago
I see that you don't live in Turkey. Or Lebanon. Or Egypt, or the United States, or Brazil, or any of tens of other nations where this exact scenario is not only plausible, but is of real concern.
- quitit 5y ago
  Then you should already be gravely concerned because, as I've stated: Apple is last to the game here. Google and Meta each with significantly larger audiences than Apple are already doing this. Since Meta in particular is social media and the main source of casual political dis/information for the masses this would be the low hanging fruit that you're worried about. The vague "this is a serious concern because my government is shit" requires a person to ignore a lot in favour of a little.
  - cool_dude85 5y ago
    Sorry, my meta hardware is scanning client-side for CSAM? And you claim it's the same for google; can you tell me which Pixel is scanning client-side?