5 ms·

> but I definitely think governments wouldn't tell you the truth if it did Think a bit more about this. How many countries, how many people, how many hospitals

by consp 5y ago

> but I definitely think governments wouldn't tell you the truth if it did Think a bit more about this. How many countries, how many people, how many hospitals you would have to silence to make that happen. Also with respect to the football player. As far as I can tell it's been going around quite long and people are just noticing it more due to some highly televised event.

throwawayacc2 5y ago
You don’t really need to silence them. Just ignore them and relegate them to the fringes. “What? More and more people are having heart issues after vaccination? Hogwash! It’s post pandemic stress, nothing special, you’re just being a conspiracy theorist! And we all know conspiracy theorist is just one step away from far right and we don’t listen to nazis here”. Sounds familiar?
- eloff 5y ago
  They can say all that. The old adage about how to tell if a politician is lying - if their lips are moving - applies. But the data cannot simply be hand-waved away by politicians, nor easily controlled in the West. Look at what medical experts say when they publish analysis about the data - and you get as near to the truth as you can reasonably hope.
  - curtainsforus 5y ago
    I could imagine a world where no respectable journal would publish a conspiracy theory like 'the vaccine is worse than covid for under-25 males', and no respectable academic would touch the question because it's too radioactive. Academia is politicized. We've already had plenty of cases of medical academics getting hounded off e.g. twitter for supporting non-mainstream positions, questioning vaccine rollout timelines, or entertaining the lab leak.
    - eloff 5y ago
      This happens, it happened with the lab leak hypothesis. It's believable. I don't believe it to be happening here though. I've not seen any evidence for that. There are plenty of papers examining everything from vaccine rollout strategy, mixing vaccines, dose spacing, side effects for all age groups, etc.
funcDropShadow 5y ago
Currently, I am only aware of one football player with unusual health problems: Kimmich, a German national player with Bayern München. He said on TV he has doubts about possible long term effects of the vaccines against. He contracted Sars-COV II. He tests negative now, but still has lung problems and cannot play. [1] Hmm, perhaps he should have considered the risks of an infection as well. [1]: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-kimmich-corona-lunge-1.5484024 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-kimmich-corona-l...
- xenocratus 5y ago
  Funny enough, I was just reading about Aguero: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59660727 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59660727
- gadders 5y ago
  Christian Eriksen, Sergio Aguero, John Fleck, Charlie Wyke, Adam Traore have all had heart issues (and vaccine reasons discounted apparently).
gadders 5y ago
>> Think a bit more about this. How many countries, how many people, how many hospitals you would have to silence to make that happen. I'm generally with you on this point - governments just generally aren't that competent to EG fake the moon landings. However, I do look at how the narrative over the COVID 19 lab leak theory has changed from "You are racist and cancelled for even saying it" to "This sounds at least possible, if not probable." So I don't think (if it were the case vaccines had harmful side effects) that it would stay secret forever, but it might stay secret long enough for people to take the vaccines. ///edit// Also this doesn't encourage confidence: Wait what? FDA wants 55 years to process FOIA request over vaccine data https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants...

by consp 5y ago

throwawayacc2 5y ago

You don’t really need to silence them. Just ignore them and relegate them to the fringes. “What? More and more people are having heart issues after vaccination? Hogwash! It’s post pandemic stress, nothing special, you’re just being a conspiracy theorist! And we all know conspiracy theorist is just one step away from far right and we don’t listen to nazis here”. Sounds familiar?

eloff 5y ago
They can say all that. The old adage about how to tell if a politician is lying - if their lips are moving - applies. But the data cannot simply be hand-waved away by politicians, nor easily controlled in the West. Look at what medical experts say when they publish analysis about the data - and you get as near to the truth as you can reasonably hope.
- curtainsforus 5y ago
  I could imagine a world where no respectable journal would publish a conspiracy theory like 'the vaccine is worse than covid for under-25 males', and no respectable academic would touch the question because it's too radioactive. Academia is politicized. We've already had plenty of cases of medical academics getting hounded off e.g. twitter for supporting non-mainstream positions, questioning vaccine rollout timelines, or entertaining the lab leak.
  - eloff 5y ago
    This happens, it happened with the lab leak hypothesis. It's believable. I don't believe it to be happening here though. I've not seen any evidence for that. There are plenty of papers examining everything from vaccine rollout strategy, mixing vaccines, dose spacing, side effects for all age groups, etc.

funcDropShadow 5y ago

Currently, I am only aware of one football player with unusual health problems: Kimmich, a German national player with Bayern München. He said on TV he has doubts about possible long term effects of the vaccines against. He contracted Sars-COV II. He tests negative now, but still has lung problems and cannot play. [1] Hmm, perhaps he should have considered the risks of an infection as well. [1]: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-kimmich-corona-lunge-1.5484024 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-kimmich-corona-l...

xenocratus 5y ago
Funny enough, I was just reading about Aguero: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59660727 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59660727
gadders 5y ago
Christian Eriksen, Sergio Aguero, John Fleck, Charlie Wyke, Adam Traore have all had heart issues (and vaccine reasons discounted apparently).

gadders 5y ago

>> Think a bit more about this. How many countries, how many people, how many hospitals you would have to silence to make that happen. I'm generally with you on this point - governments just generally aren't that competent to EG fake the moon landings. However, I do look at how the narrative over the COVID 19 lab leak theory has changed from "You are racist and cancelled for even saying it" to "This sounds at least possible, if not probable." So I don't think (if it were the case vaccines had harmful side effects) that it would stay secret forever, but it might stay secret long enough for people to take the vaccines. ///edit// Also this doesn't encourage confidence: Wait what? FDA wants 55 years to process FOIA request over vaccine data https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants...