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On the, er, spicier ends of Telegram people have been keeping logs of football (soccer) players that have been having heart issues recently. There have also bee

On the, er, spicier ends of Telegram people have been keeping logs of football (soccer) players that have been having heart issues recently. There have also been stories about people having heart issues due to "post-pandemic stress disorder" [1] I'm not saying that I think the vaccine causes heart issues, but I definitely think governments wouldn't tell you the truth if it did. [1] https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/post-pandemic-stress-disorder-heart-conditions-covid-london-physicians-b969436.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/post-pandemic-stress-...

zpeti 5y ago
I'd be super interested in the data on this - breaking down these pro athlete issues by - who's vaccinated and hasn't had a positive PCR test - who's vaccinated and has had a positive PCR test - who's unvaccinated Until that is clear, all these stories are basically clickbait. These issues could be caused by covid, the vaccines, or both. We just don't know.
consp 5y ago
> but I definitely think governments wouldn't tell you the truth if it did Think a bit more about this. How many countries, how many people, how many hospitals you would have to silence to make that happen. Also with respect to the football player. As far as I can tell it's been going around quite long and people are just noticing it more due to some highly televised event.
- throwawayacc2 5y ago
  You don’t really need to silence them. Just ignore them and relegate them to the fringes. “What? More and more people are having heart issues after vaccination? Hogwash! It’s post pandemic stress, nothing special, you’re just being a conspiracy theorist! And we all know conspiracy theorist is just one step away from far right and we don’t listen to nazis here”. Sounds familiar?
  - eloff 5y ago
    They can say all that. The old adage about how to tell if a politician is lying - if their lips are moving - applies. But the data cannot simply be hand-waved away by politicians, nor easily controlled in the West. Look at what medical experts say when they publish analysis about the data - and you get as near to the truth as you can reasonably hope.
    - curtainsforus 5y ago
      I could imagine a world where no respectable journal would publish a conspiracy theory like 'the vaccine is worse than covid for under-25 males', and no respectable academic would touch the question because it's too radioactive. Academia is politicized. We've already had plenty of cases of medical academics getting hounded off e.g. twitter for supporting non-mainstream positions, questioning vaccine rollout timelines, or entertaining the lab leak.
      - eloff 5y ago
        This happens, it happened with the lab leak hypothesis. It's believable. I don't believe it to be happening here though. I've not seen any evidence for that. There are plenty of papers examining everything from vaccine rollout strategy, mixing vaccines, dose spacing, side effects for all age groups, etc.
- funcDropShadow 5y ago
  Currently, I am only aware of one football player with unusual health problems: Kimmich, a German national player with Bayern München. He said on TV he has doubts about possible long term effects of the vaccines against. He contracted Sars-COV II. He tests negative now, but still has lung problems and cannot play. [1] Hmm, perhaps he should have considered the risks of an infection as well. [1]: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-kimmich-corona-lunge-1.5484024 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-kimmich-corona-l...
  - xenocratus 5y ago
    Funny enough, I was just reading about Aguero: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59660727 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59660727
  - gadders 5y ago
    Christian Eriksen, Sergio Aguero, John Fleck, Charlie Wyke, Adam Traore have all had heart issues (and vaccine reasons discounted apparently).
- gadders 5y ago
  >> Think a bit more about this. How many countries, how many people, how many hospitals you would have to silence to make that happen. I'm generally with you on this point - governments just generally aren't that competent to EG fake the moon landings. However, I do look at how the narrative over the COVID 19 lab leak theory has changed from "You are racist and cancelled for even saying it" to "This sounds at least possible, if not probable." So I don't think (if it were the case vaccines had harmful side effects) that it would stay secret forever, but it might stay secret long enough for people to take the vaccines. ///edit// Also this doesn't encourage confidence: Wait what? FDA wants 55 years to process FOIA request over vaccine data https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants...
trompetenaccoun 5y ago
There doesn't even have to be a big government conspiracy, the whole thing is politicized enough that most people are either scared to speak up and/or convinced of things no matter the data. For example I personally know of two serious cases of completely healthy people falling ill days after the vaccination. One died and one was in hospital for over 2 weeks with heart inflammation. Both did not get investigated for the possible vaccine connection.
- lixtra 5y ago
  In my extended circle of acquaintances, below the age of 40, there have been so far 0 covid deaths (no hospitalizations either, some claim it was a very unpleasant disease). One died shortly after his vaccination. He developed high fever and after a few days his aorta bursted. It’s just anecdotal data, I know.
teekert 5y ago
Actually the article tells us the vaccins are probably causing heart issues. It's easy to take this line and shove it into a tweet but then you would ignore this part: We found increased risks of myocarditis associated with the first dose of ChAdOx1 and BNT162b2 vaccines and the first and second doses of the mRNA-1273 vaccine over the 1–28 days postvaccination period, and after a SARS-CoV-2 positive test. We estimated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test. We also observed increased risks of pericarditis and cardiac arrhythmias following a positive SARS-CoV-2 test. Similar associations were not observed with any of the COVID-19 vaccines, apart from an increased risk of arrhythmia following a second dose of mRNA-1273. Subgroup analyses by age showed the increased risk of myocarditis associated with the two mRNA vaccines was present only in those younger than 40. Which is a tough read and far more subtle. The downsides of the vaccines need to be constantly weighed against the downsides of contracting Covid19 un-vaccinated. And this is different for different age groups (and very probably ethnicity, BMI, etc). I bet people will take single lines from this article and shove them into tweets which shows exactly how harmful that can be, it does only one thing: Polarize. The truth is complex and you can't tell people to please refrain from commenting if you don't understand the concept of confidence intervals, for example. I've been trying to stress this to friends on both sides, some (the minority) are angry that the government and (former) friends feel that they are obliged to inject themselves with a substance they don't understand, and some are angry that you can be so selfish that you don't want to join everyone in the only collective effort we have to beat that damn Covid19. Both want to die thinking "I did it my way". Both are primarily angry these days. What a shame. I like this admission from the scientists, I think we can all get behind that: By the end of September 2021, more than 6.3 billion doses of COVID-19 vaccination had been administered worldwide1. Clinical trials of COVID-19 vaccines were underpowered to detect the rare adverse events that are important for risk–benefit evaluations and to inform clinical practice postvaccination. Therefore, identifying such rare adverse events is now a global scientific priority.
viraptor 5y ago
You're commenting on a government sponsored study about the vaccine causing heart issues. Are you sure you want to repeat that conspiracy theory?

zpeti 5y ago

I'd be super interested in the data on this - breaking down these pro athlete issues by - who's vaccinated and hasn't had a positive PCR test - who's vaccinated and has had a positive PCR test - who's unvaccinated Until that is clear, all these stories are basically clickbait. These issues could be caused by covid, the vaccines, or both. We just don't know.

consp 5y ago

> but I definitely think governments wouldn't tell you the truth if it did Think a bit more about this. How many countries, how many people, how many hospitals you would have to silence to make that happen. Also with respect to the football player. As far as I can tell it's been going around quite long and people are just noticing it more due to some highly televised event.

throwawayacc2 5y ago
You don’t really need to silence them. Just ignore them and relegate them to the fringes. “What? More and more people are having heart issues after vaccination? Hogwash! It’s post pandemic stress, nothing special, you’re just being a conspiracy theorist! And we all know conspiracy theorist is just one step away from far right and we don’t listen to nazis here”. Sounds familiar?
- eloff 5y ago
  They can say all that. The old adage about how to tell if a politician is lying - if their lips are moving - applies. But the data cannot simply be hand-waved away by politicians, nor easily controlled in the West. Look at what medical experts say when they publish analysis about the data - and you get as near to the truth as you can reasonably hope.
  - curtainsforus 5y ago
    I could imagine a world where no respectable journal would publish a conspiracy theory like 'the vaccine is worse than covid for under-25 males', and no respectable academic would touch the question because it's too radioactive. Academia is politicized. We've already had plenty of cases of medical academics getting hounded off e.g. twitter for supporting non-mainstream positions, questioning vaccine rollout timelines, or entertaining the lab leak.
    - eloff 5y ago
      This happens, it happened with the lab leak hypothesis. It's believable. I don't believe it to be happening here though. I've not seen any evidence for that. There are plenty of papers examining everything from vaccine rollout strategy, mixing vaccines, dose spacing, side effects for all age groups, etc.
funcDropShadow 5y ago
Currently, I am only aware of one football player with unusual health problems: Kimmich, a German national player with Bayern München. He said on TV he has doubts about possible long term effects of the vaccines against. He contracted Sars-COV II. He tests negative now, but still has lung problems and cannot play. [1] Hmm, perhaps he should have considered the risks of an infection as well. [1]: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-kimmich-corona-lunge-1.5484024 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/fc-bayern-kimmich-corona-l...
- xenocratus 5y ago
  Funny enough, I was just reading about Aguero: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59660727 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59660727
- gadders 5y ago
  Christian Eriksen, Sergio Aguero, John Fleck, Charlie Wyke, Adam Traore have all had heart issues (and vaccine reasons discounted apparently).
gadders 5y ago
>> Think a bit more about this. How many countries, how many people, how many hospitals you would have to silence to make that happen. I'm generally with you on this point - governments just generally aren't that competent to EG fake the moon landings. However, I do look at how the narrative over the COVID 19 lab leak theory has changed from "You are racist and cancelled for even saying it" to "This sounds at least possible, if not probable." So I don't think (if it were the case vaccines had harmful side effects) that it would stay secret forever, but it might stay secret long enough for people to take the vaccines. ///edit// Also this doesn't encourage confidence: Wait what? FDA wants 55 years to process FOIA request over vaccine data https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants...

trompetenaccoun 5y ago

There doesn't even have to be a big government conspiracy, the whole thing is politicized enough that most people are either scared to speak up and/or convinced of things no matter the data. For example I personally know of two serious cases of completely healthy people falling ill days after the vaccination. One died and one was in hospital for over 2 weeks with heart inflammation. Both did not get investigated for the possible vaccine connection.

lixtra 5y ago
In my extended circle of acquaintances, below the age of 40, there have been so far 0 covid deaths (no hospitalizations either, some claim it was a very unpleasant disease). One died shortly after his vaccination. He developed high fever and after a few days his aorta bursted. It’s just anecdotal data, I know.

teekert 5y ago

Actually the article tells us the vaccins are probably causing heart issues. It's easy to take this line and shove it into a tweet but then you would ignore this part: We found increased risks of myocarditis associated with the first dose of ChAdOx1 and BNT162b2 vaccines and the first and second doses of the mRNA-1273 vaccine over the 1–28 days postvaccination period, and after a SARS-CoV-2 positive test. We estimated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test. We also observed increased risks of pericarditis and cardiac arrhythmias following a positive SARS-CoV-2 test. Similar associations were not observed with any of the COVID-19 vaccines, apart from an increased risk of arrhythmia following a second dose of mRNA-1273. Subgroup analyses by age showed the increased risk of myocarditis associated with the two mRNA vaccines was present only in those younger than 40. Which is a tough read and far more subtle. The downsides of the vaccines need to be constantly weighed against the downsides of contracting Covid19 un-vaccinated. And this is different for different age groups (and very probably ethnicity, BMI, etc). I bet people will take single lines from this article and shove them into tweets which shows exactly how harmful that can be, it does only one thing: Polarize. The truth is complex and you can't tell people to please refrain from commenting if you don't understand the concept of confidence intervals, for example. I've been trying to stress this to friends on both sides, some (the minority) are angry that the government and (former) friends feel that they are obliged to inject themselves with a substance they don't understand, and some are angry that you can be so selfish that you don't want to join everyone in the only collective effort we have to beat that damn Covid19. Both want to die thinking "I did it my way". Both are primarily angry these days. What a shame. I like this admission from the scientists, I think we can all get behind that: By the end of September 2021, more than 6.3 billion doses of COVID-19 vaccination had been administered worldwide1. Clinical trials of COVID-19 vaccines were underpowered to detect the rare adverse events that are important for risk–benefit evaluations and to inform clinical practice postvaccination. Therefore, identifying such rare adverse events is now a global scientific priority.

viraptor 5y ago

You're commenting on a government sponsored study about the vaccine causing heart issues. Are you sure you want to repeat that conspiracy theory?