4 ms·
Why is the media doing this with old depression treatments that have been around for ages? First it was the deep brain stimulation article, now this? rTMS techn
by cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
Why is the media doing this with old depression treatments that have been around for ages? First it was the deep brain stimulation article, now this? rTMS technology has been around since 2008. The picture they are using is the same magnetic figure 8 coil that they used on the first devices and not even the newer technology using the Brainsway or deep TMS device.
This article is incredibly frustrating. This is NOT new technology. It is a different modality called theta burst which they didn't even mention the name of in the article. The benefit of using theta burst is that you can do TMS courses much faster. This is a major benefit but the technology is still the same. If you didn't have remission with the prolonged rTMS course theta burst is not a magic bullet. The benefit is that it's easier to do bilateral treatment and speed up the treatment quite a bit. Normally you have to come in every business day for a few months for 20 mins at a time.
It really sucks to have "lay people" in my life email me these articles like this is some new breakthrough. The articles often come out prior to FDA approval but these modalities have been around for 10+ years prior and I always knew about them with someone with treatment resistant depression. Remember, off label treatments are a thing, and theta burst was available well before this study came out.
I'm currently undergoing deep TMS treatment with the Brainsway device on my left hemisphere and they were able to boost the treatment by adding the theta burst with the figure 8 coil like in the picture to do my right hemisphere to improve chances of remission. It is a good trick and it boosts your chances of remission because it's faster and easier to do bilateral but as I said there is nothing magical about theta burst other than it's a very fast treatment. Those who didn't have remission on long courses of TMS before unilaterally probably aren't going to magically have remission on this. What we might end up seeing is some kind of threshhold that wasn't achievable in the past, say that some people could reach remission but it's not feasible to come into the office every day for 6 months.
Anyway TMS is great and should be used more but I just hate these dumb articles. Especially since it's touting this as some magical new technology. No way. And we're still a long way from TMS being prescribed in general cases - less side effects than meds but insurance wise you have to trial and fail several meds before it's covered. Even SSRIs which are given out like candy can have severe side effects like GI bleeding. TMS is very, very safe with few side effects. For me it was just discomfort during the treatment but not after.
Also just got to say this quote summed up how ridiculous the article was for me: "“This study is hopefully just the tip of the iceberg,” said Siddiqi. “I think we're finally on the verge of a paradigm shift in how we think about psychiatric treatment, where we'll supplement the conventional chemical imbalance and psychological conflict models with a new brain circuit model.” In other words, psychiatrists will use electricity instead of talk therapy and drugs to treat mental health disorders." No reason to make rTMS sound like some Frankenstein tech and no, rTMS will not be used "instead of talk therapy and drugs".
TBH a little disappointed at hacker news, next time link to the study! I would love to see articles on NEW treatments for depression. Spoiler alert..there really haven't been any for a long time now. Just me too drugs and this is a bit of a me too tech as well.
- disabled 5y ago> Even SSRIs which are given out like candy can have severe side effects like GI bleeding. SSRIs and SNRIs can cause akathisia. It happened to me, and it was by far the worst thing that happened to me ever in my life. I went through 6 months of nonstop hell with akathisia, and it was the worst 6 months of my life. Trust me, if you have severe akathisia, it is worse than death. This is somebody who has akathisia from taking Effexor (an SNRI): https://youtu.be/W_iiy8ISvdY https://youtu.be/W_iiy8ISvdY This is a public service announcement from an akathisia advocacy group (known as Akathisia Alliance) about akathisia: https://youtu.be/VgvhAilA070 https://youtu.be/VgvhAilA070 Here is an article from a mother whose son developed akathisia from taking an SSRI for about a week. (My story has a lot of common denominators to this one): https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/06/boy-interrupted-a-story-of-akathisia/ https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/06/boy-interrupted-a-story...
- cupcake-unicorn 5y agoSSRIs are awful. I still have doctors trying to throw them at me after 15+ years of treatment resistant depression. It's honestly delusional. MAOIs actually have less drug/drug interactions and less systemic reactions if used responsibly. If another drug had the same dangers SSRIs had I don't think doctors would be overprescribing it as much but by definition people who are going in to get Prozac, we can easily tell them everything's in their head and blame anything that happens on their disorder. SSRIs also INCREASE the risk of suicide and a trial with healthy people without history of behavioral health issues on Prozac ended in some of the patients dying this way. This has been a huge cover up and I'm not sure if these meds got the black box warning about this. It's easy to say "ohh these patients would have done that anyway, they're depressed" but that's not what the data shows...
- touisteur 5y agoI don't know about a cover, but the notice at least in France for venlafaxine (Effexor) are quite clear about the increase of suicidal ideation in the first week(s), during which neurotransmitters rebalance. I was briefed by my doc and it still was quite the experience, trying the whole day to keep myself from jumping in front of trains, cars, or from bridges, windows, cars... Like 'WTF is happening to me'. I also had very strange differences in mood or tolerance between brands of generics, that I'd never had before with any med. I'd go from OK to crap in 2 weeks and my wife would link it to prescription renewal and pharmacist giving me whatever brand. I used to think it didn't matter... Oh and venlafaxine is a bitch to taper out. Constant vertigo, nausea, ringing and tingling, migraines and the fun panic attacks... If we can find better, please please please keep researching.