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> Chesa Boudin’s strategy is a complete failure. Crime is up and everyone hates it. I agree with you that it won't work. To my surprise, there are tons of peo

> Chesa Boudin’s strategy is a complete failure. Crime is up and everyone hates it. I agree with you that it won't work. To my surprise, there are tons of people who support restorative justice. I'd even go as far as it is the majority of SF voters. In any case, with a sociology problem and solution like this, we can't be too arrogant to say whether one would work or not. So, I want SF to follow through with it.

diogenescynic 5y ago
So ignore the reality we see with our eyes and double down on an ideology that is clearly not working for anyone? Got it. SF never mass incarcerated criminals and was already lax on crime. I didn’t realize “restorative justice” meant letting elderly Asians get beat in the streets or letting drug users take over children's parks. SF is a joke and doubling down on failing strategies because of ideology is why it such a miserable place. The neo-liberals have turned SF into ancapistan. Hopefully you can afford privat security, otherwise SF feels like living in a slum. Other countries that are actually progressive (not just woke) have found better ways to clean up cities but also decriminalize drugs. The red light district in Amsterdam is cleaner than almost any part of SF. What we are doing is clearly failing. The difference is they don’t let people just openly use drugs on the streets, don’t allow theft, and don’t tolerate anarchy like we do.
- cmh89 5y ago
  You should take a hard look at the criminal justice system of those 'actually progressive' countries because they look a lot more like California than they do Texas. They tend to spend their money on the social safety net and provide behavioral and physical health care to all people, which is why they don't have a lot of the same issues we do. Crime is up everywhere in this country. We jail tons of people in the US and its gotten us absolutely nothing.
  - diogenescynic 5y ago
    People were sure a lot safer before meth and heroin were decriminalized. If anything that’s gotten us nowhere. No other country allows people to just sit on the sidewalk and smoke meth and shoot heroin and break into cars and shoplift to support their habit. We have the worst of all outcomes. The champagne Neo-liberals who advocate for this stuff don’t have to live with the consequences. It’s all woke virtue signaling. Sadly it’s the drug addicts and mentally ill who suffer since they are just constantly let to spiral further downward. There are zero guard rails to individual behavior anymore. This is Ancapistan, not some progressive utopia.
    - cmh89 5y ago
      > People were sure a lot safer before meth and heroin were decriminalized. I'd love to see some actual data on this. > No other country allows people to just sit on the sidewalk and smoke meth and shoot heroin and break into cars and shoplift to support their habit. No other country puts addiction treatment behind a huge financial wall either. America is broken and that's just a symptom of it. > It’s all woke virtue signaling Just as an aside, people who use 'woke' and 'virtue signal' really discredit themselves by using those terms. It telephones the reality that you probably consume a lot of conservative 'sky-is-falling' media that is designed to make you scared and reactionary. > Sadly it’s the drug addicts and mentally ill who suffer since they are just constantly let to spiral further downward Is your thought that being locked in a jail is somehow better for them? You don't need to pretend that you actually care what happens to them.
      - diebeforei485 5y ago
        Virtue signalling is a real thing. You see it often with things like land acknowledgements[1][2], for example. As far as whether people should be allowed to rot on the streets, stealing from local businesses to feed their drug addiction, and being sexually assaulted by their dealer - there are better alternatives. Behind bars is one option, Lanterman-Petris-Short conservatorship[3] (not the Britney Spears type) is another. 1. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/native-americans-land-acknowledgments-cec/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/native-americans-land-ackn... 2. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/against-land-acknowledgements-native-american/620820/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/against-la... 3. https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/07/britney-spears-conservatorship/ https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/07/britney-spears-conser...

diogenescynic 5y ago

So ignore the reality we see with our eyes and double down on an ideology that is clearly not working for anyone? Got it. SF never mass incarcerated criminals and was already lax on crime. I didn’t realize “restorative justice” meant letting elderly Asians get beat in the streets or letting drug users take over children's parks. SF is a joke and doubling down on failing strategies because of ideology is why it such a miserable place. The neo-liberals have turned SF into ancapistan. Hopefully you can afford privat security, otherwise SF feels like living in a slum. Other countries that are actually progressive (not just woke) have found better ways to clean up cities but also decriminalize drugs. The red light district in Amsterdam is cleaner than almost any part of SF. What we are doing is clearly failing. The difference is they don’t let people just openly use drugs on the streets, don’t allow theft, and don’t tolerate anarchy like we do.

cmh89 5y ago
You should take a hard look at the criminal justice system of those 'actually progressive' countries because they look a lot more like California than they do Texas. They tend to spend their money on the social safety net and provide behavioral and physical health care to all people, which is why they don't have a lot of the same issues we do. Crime is up everywhere in this country. We jail tons of people in the US and its gotten us absolutely nothing.
- diogenescynic 5y ago
  People were sure a lot safer before meth and heroin were decriminalized. If anything that’s gotten us nowhere. No other country allows people to just sit on the sidewalk and smoke meth and shoot heroin and break into cars and shoplift to support their habit. We have the worst of all outcomes. The champagne Neo-liberals who advocate for this stuff don’t have to live with the consequences. It’s all woke virtue signaling. Sadly it’s the drug addicts and mentally ill who suffer since they are just constantly let to spiral further downward. There are zero guard rails to individual behavior anymore. This is Ancapistan, not some progressive utopia.
  - cmh89 5y ago
    > People were sure a lot safer before meth and heroin were decriminalized. I'd love to see some actual data on this. > No other country allows people to just sit on the sidewalk and smoke meth and shoot heroin and break into cars and shoplift to support their habit. No other country puts addiction treatment behind a huge financial wall either. America is broken and that's just a symptom of it. > It’s all woke virtue signaling Just as an aside, people who use 'woke' and 'virtue signal' really discredit themselves by using those terms. It telephones the reality that you probably consume a lot of conservative 'sky-is-falling' media that is designed to make you scared and reactionary. > Sadly it’s the drug addicts and mentally ill who suffer since they are just constantly let to spiral further downward Is your thought that being locked in a jail is somehow better for them? You don't need to pretend that you actually care what happens to them.
    - diebeforei485 5y ago
      Virtue signalling is a real thing. You see it often with things like land acknowledgements[1][2], for example. As far as whether people should be allowed to rot on the streets, stealing from local businesses to feed their drug addiction, and being sexually assaulted by their dealer - there are better alternatives. Behind bars is one option, Lanterman-Petris-Short conservatorship[3] (not the Britney Spears type) is another. 1. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/native-americans-land-acknowledgments-cec/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/22/us/native-americans-land-ackn... 2. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/against-land-acknowledgements-native-american/620820/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/against-la... 3. https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/07/britney-spears-conservatorship/ https://calmatters.org/justice/2021/07/britney-spears-conser...