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I'd argue it's more a symptom of the Java ecosystem than anything, and probably a lot more to come. From my brief tenure with it, it seemed to be 'add everythi

I'd argue it's more a symptom of the Java ecosystem than anything, and probably a lot more to come. From my brief tenure with it, it seemed to be 'add everything, deprecate nothing'. I remember when writing my first Java code from reference, it all worked, then my coworkers grilled me for using some -builtin- libraries because 'nobody uses that anymore.' That, and Java does everything their own way. From bouncycastle crypto to db connectors to freakin JKS, it was very much NIH all the way down to an outsider. I actually worked for a time where half my job was converting JKS to PEM for customers. Java isn't all bad, but could have used much stronger and much more conservative governance.

hvgk 5y ago
This is one reason I like Go. It’s exactly the opposite to Java in that respect.
- silisili 5y ago
  Agreed 100%. As a person who writes Go daily, I appreciate that they conformed to well established standards. The crypto is redone in Go which is a little scary, but the author is among the best in the business so I generally trust it.
- staticassertion 5y ago
  Go packages its own templating language, doesn't quite scream "minimal".
  - hvgk 5y ago
    I think that’s a separate point. It does include a template language because Go is “batteries included”. You can write productive stuff without having to import any third party packages at all. Everything you need is properly supported by the core team and written to the same standard.
bollockitis 5y ago
To be fair, Java existed before a lot of modern standards and its primary goals were to be fully object-oriented (because every project manager was convinced that this was the best approach at the time) and cross-platform, so they kind of HAD to rewrite everything. Everything needed a Java-friendly OO interface and had to run on the JVM on a bunch of different platforms spanning everything from Solaris servers to embedded devices. In hindsight it’s easy to say that this was an overly ambitious project with vague goals but it made sense in 1995 when technology was revolutionizing everything and creating new domains and markets.

hvgk 5y ago

This is one reason I like Go. It’s exactly the opposite to Java in that respect.

silisili 5y ago
Agreed 100%. As a person who writes Go daily, I appreciate that they conformed to well established standards. The crypto is redone in Go which is a little scary, but the author is among the best in the business so I generally trust it.
staticassertion 5y ago
Go packages its own templating language, doesn't quite scream "minimal".
- hvgk 5y ago
  I think that’s a separate point. It does include a template language because Go is “batteries included”. You can write productive stuff without having to import any third party packages at all. Everything you need is properly supported by the core team and written to the same standard.

bollockitis 5y ago

To be fair, Java existed before a lot of modern standards and its primary goals were to be fully object-oriented (because every project manager was convinced that this was the best approach at the time) and cross-platform, so they kind of HAD to rewrite everything. Everything needed a Java-friendly OO interface and had to run on the JVM on a bunch of different platforms spanning everything from Solaris servers to embedded devices. In hindsight it’s easy to say that this was an overly ambitious project with vague goals but it made sense in 1995 when technology was revolutionizing everything and creating new domains and markets.