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Right now, I'm evaluating classless CSS frameworks for a project. Currently, Bamboo seems to make it, but I will checkout Pico!

by k__ 5y ago

hyuuu 5y ago
why not tailwind?
- gondo 5y ago
  because tailwind is not "classless"
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    somehow tailwind sits in between, maybe it's nameless ?
    - k__ 5y ago
      Does it? I had the impression, if Tailwind has one thing, it's a multitude of classes.
      - kingdomcome50 5y ago
        Yes Tailwind uses classes. But I think the parent might have meant that Tailwind is not semantic.
      - agumonkey 5y ago
        From the few I know, the classes are mostly shortcuts to css features (container are one of the exception), which are of course defined as custom classes but they don't create a new layer of (name,meaning) unlike what I assume we were all doing.
  - k__ 5y ago
    This. It's just a bunch of code examples and text, so no fancy layout or styling is needed. I just want a modern look, without much hassle.
oxalorg 5y ago
Shameless plug, but do check out [sakura.css](https://github.com/oxalorg/sakura https://github.com/oxalorg/sakura). I've tried to keep it really simple so that folks without css knowledge are also able to hack on it while building their sites. Would be happy to hear your feedback on it :)
- k__ 5y ago
  Sakura makes a good impression, Pico not so much.
- pcranaway 5y ago
  I've been using it for some time now, it's perfect, thank thank you.
- wx196 5y ago
  I don't think it is a good idea to use disabled-like styling for enabled inputs. Especially for "classless" framework that targets simplicity and basic html standards. https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_input_disabled https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_in...
reactspa 5y ago
Question for anyone reading this: Why the demand for "classless"?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- stepbeek 5y ago
  I’ve been structuring my styles with CUBE.css (https://cube.fyi https://cube.fyi) for a few months now and a classless approach fits the composition piece very well. Example: In a particular context (say the <h3> tag in the <header> of each <section>) I almost always want a default style. On changing that style, I don’t want to modify markup. In future, when adding more pages, I don’t want to remember the particular combination of css classes that I’ve used elsewhere. When a particular face out is different (this <article> is a modal) then I can add meaningful class names to convey intentions. From a practical perspective, I’ve found it to give me 90% of the UI I want at 10% of the cost.
  - mosselman 5y ago
    Cube looks nice, thanks!
  - hobofan 5y ago
    OT: Do you by chance have any pointers on where to stay up-to-date on modern frontend development? As a dev I've been out of the frontend game for a few years, when BEM was widely used. When I started working more on frontend again a few months ago I tried to look around for developments in terms of methodologies (e.g. "is there a 'next BEM'?"), but didn't really find anything and didn't even know where to look. Even just hearing about newer aproaches like CUBE would be nice, regardless if they end up being fit for production usage.
    - stepbeek 5y ago
      I follow the following blogs for front-end. * https://adactio.com https://adactio.com * https://piccalil.li/blog/ https://piccalil.li/blog/ * https://stephaniewalter.design/ https://stephaniewalter.design/ * https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/ https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/ This post has some good pointers: https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2021/what-do-i-need-to-read-to-be-a-css-dev/ https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2021/what-do-i-need-to-read-... I'm not sure what other advice to give. A lot of this was collected over time in response to frustrations I felt around the direction front-end has been moving in (css-in-js, atomic css etc.) and looking for people writing criticisms of it.
thieu96 5y ago
I'd advice against it, unless you want to write every component by hand. Any third party library or component you use will be affected by "classless". There's a good reason explicitly define classes. It's the same reason you don't change native prototypes in Javascript. Libraries assume the defaults, both for styling and code.
- k__ 5y ago
  It's okay, really. I only have a handful of HTML pages with a bit text and code. Nothing fancy. My main goal is to keep all code in the HTML files with as little boilerplate as possible.
- digitalsankhara 5y ago
  That's a good point. I'm by no means a HTML/CSS/JS guru but this seems the wrong way around to me. Maybe components that honour the "base" tags e.g. <p>, <h1> etc that the classless stylesheet has defined could be developed (please accept my lack of awareness of those that already do exist). So instead of a component assuming, it needs to be pointed to the tag you, as developer/designer, require - perhaps via a config parameter. Interesting comment about using SASS to namespace, but then the elegant simplicity of these stylesheets starts to get chipped away IMHO.
  - thinkloop 5y ago
    I think the issue there is that there are thousands of available CSS properties. Without assumptions, every single one would have to be specified for every single class. Imagine the same for JS or any other language, you would have to re-write the standard lib if you couldn't rely on it.
dsego 5y ago
Cool, I also like https://holidaycss.js.org https://holidaycss.js.org

Right now, I'm evaluating classless CSS frameworks for a project. Currently, Bamboo seems to make it, but I will checkout Pico!

by k__ 5y ago

Right now, I'm evaluating classless CSS frameworks for a project. Currently, Bamboo seems to make it, but I will checkout Pico!

hyuuu 5y ago

why not tailwind?

gondo 5y ago
because tailwind is not "classless"
- agumonkey 5y ago
  somehow tailwind sits in between, maybe it's nameless ?
  - k__ 5y ago
    Does it? I had the impression, if Tailwind has one thing, it's a multitude of classes.
    - kingdomcome50 5y ago
      Yes Tailwind uses classes. But I think the parent might have meant that Tailwind is not semantic.
    - agumonkey 5y ago
      From the few I know, the classes are mostly shortcuts to css features (container are one of the exception), which are of course defined as custom classes but they don't create a new layer of (name,meaning) unlike what I assume we were all doing.
- k__ 5y ago
  This. It's just a bunch of code examples and text, so no fancy layout or styling is needed. I just want a modern look, without much hassle.

oxalorg 5y ago

Shameless plug, but do check out [sakura.css](https://github.com/oxalorg/sakura https://github.com/oxalorg/sakura). I've tried to keep it really simple so that folks without css knowledge are also able to hack on it while building their sites. Would be happy to hear your feedback on it :)

k__ 5y ago
Sakura makes a good impression, Pico not so much.
pcranaway 5y ago
I've been using it for some time now, it's perfect, thank thank you.
wx196 5y ago
I don't think it is a good idea to use disabled-like styling for enabled inputs. Especially for "classless" framework that targets simplicity and basic html standards. https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_input_disabled https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_in...

reactspa 5y ago

Question for anyone reading this: Why the demand for "classless"?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
stepbeek 5y ago
I’ve been structuring my styles with CUBE.css (https://cube.fyi https://cube.fyi) for a few months now and a classless approach fits the composition piece very well. Example: In a particular context (say the <h3> tag in the <header> of each <section>) I almost always want a default style. On changing that style, I don’t want to modify markup. In future, when adding more pages, I don’t want to remember the particular combination of css classes that I’ve used elsewhere. When a particular face out is different (this <article> is a modal) then I can add meaningful class names to convey intentions. From a practical perspective, I’ve found it to give me 90% of the UI I want at 10% of the cost.
- mosselman 5y ago
  Cube looks nice, thanks!
- hobofan 5y ago
  OT: Do you by chance have any pointers on where to stay up-to-date on modern frontend development? As a dev I've been out of the frontend game for a few years, when BEM was widely used. When I started working more on frontend again a few months ago I tried to look around for developments in terms of methodologies (e.g. "is there a 'next BEM'?"), but didn't really find anything and didn't even know where to look. Even just hearing about newer aproaches like CUBE would be nice, regardless if they end up being fit for production usage.
  - stepbeek 5y ago
    I follow the following blogs for front-end. * https://adactio.com https://adactio.com * https://piccalil.li/blog/ https://piccalil.li/blog/ * https://stephaniewalter.design/ https://stephaniewalter.design/ * https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/ https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/ This post has some good pointers: https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2021/what-do-i-need-to-read-to-be-a-css-dev/ https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2021/what-do-i-need-to-read-... I'm not sure what other advice to give. A lot of this was collected over time in response to frustrations I felt around the direction front-end has been moving in (css-in-js, atomic css etc.) and looking for people writing criticisms of it.

thieu96 5y ago

I'd advice against it, unless you want to write every component by hand. Any third party library or component you use will be affected by "classless". There's a good reason explicitly define classes. It's the same reason you don't change native prototypes in Javascript. Libraries assume the defaults, both for styling and code.

k__ 5y ago
It's okay, really. I only have a handful of HTML pages with a bit text and code. Nothing fancy. My main goal is to keep all code in the HTML files with as little boilerplate as possible.
digitalsankhara 5y ago
That's a good point. I'm by no means a HTML/CSS/JS guru but this seems the wrong way around to me. Maybe components that honour the "base" tags e.g. <p>, <h1> etc that the classless stylesheet has defined could be developed (please accept my lack of awareness of those that already do exist). So instead of a component assuming, it needs to be pointed to the tag you, as developer/designer, require - perhaps via a config parameter. Interesting comment about using SASS to namespace, but then the elegant simplicity of these stylesheets starts to get chipped away IMHO.
- thinkloop 5y ago
  I think the issue there is that there are thousands of available CSS properties. Without assumptions, every single one would have to be specified for every single class. Imagine the same for JS or any other language, you would have to re-write the standard lib if you couldn't rely on it.

dsego 5y ago

Cool, I also like https://holidaycss.js.org https://holidaycss.js.org