6 ms·

Does anyone have any good data sources that identify the problems everyone is complaining about? Every source I browse finds that crime is at an all time low.

Does anyone have any good data sources that identify the problems everyone is complaining about? Every source I browse finds that crime is at an all time low. I keep hearing anecdotes about robberies and break -ins, but nobody every has the data. The cynic in me believes people are just using perceived crime as an excuse to leave when in reality, they're just being priced out of the city.

wolverine876 5y ago
There is a political aspect too: The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election. It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact.
- zepto 5y ago
  It seems like you keep pushing the narrative that problems with SF are not real and a fabrication of the GOP. You have posted multiple comments doing this. But you don’t live in SF and have no firsthand knowledge. All you are doing is advancing your own political agenda from a remote location through online commenting, with no regard to the truth people here are witnessing.
  - koshergweilo 5y ago
    > with no regard to the truth people here are witnessing I mean, a bunch of anecdotes are still a bunch of anecdotes. Especially on an anonymous internet forum. > All you are doing is advancing your own political agenda from a remote location through online commenting You could say the same thing about those anecdotes you're referring to. For what it's worth there's plenty of other anecdotes to the contrary. I live in the Bay Area and SF is a fun, beautiful city except for the Tenderloin and some parts of Mission street. I'm glad the local government finally taking their heads out of the sand and doing something. Though it's a complicated issue with no easy answers and frankly I'm not holding my breath
    - zepto 5y ago
      > You could say the same thing about those anecdotes you're referring to. No, they are not the same. People here are posting what they have experienced. The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That person does not live in SF and is not reporting their own experience. Only what they have read. For them to be true, you’d have to accuse the people reporting their experiences of lying, while taking the poster I was replying to at face value. That would be delusional. I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary. Your opinion about SF is certainly valid, but has nothing to do with a distant person talking about GOP memes.
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        > The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That's not what I said. (EDIT: For what it's worth, regarding political polarization, I just 'vouched' for your formerly 'dead' comment to me above. While I disagree and don't love how it's handled, it shouldn't be killed IMHO.)
        zepto 5y ago
        > That's not what I said. It sure looks like that is what you are saying: > The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election. It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact. As for vouching - thanks! Since I haven’t said anything politically polarized, I can only assume I was flagged by people who are.
        wolverine876 5y ago
        Maybe notice that everyone but you is polarized.
        5y ago
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    It may seem like that, but it is not in my words. Perhaps it's a result of political polarization and the suspicions it creates? Let's do away with that. I only meant what I said.
    - zepto 5y ago
      > The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election. It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact. It sure looks like what you are saying. If you want to play games about it not being your precise wording, you can do that on your own. The only person making politically charged statements here is you.
  - diogenescynic 5y ago
    That person isn't even from SF and only has an ideological agenda in this. They should be ignored.
swearwolf 5y ago
I live in a west coast city that has seen an explosion in crime, much like San Francisco. While anecdotal evidence is not the same as data, I can tell you from my own experience and those of many others I’ve talked to, you won’t see the data reflecting the true crime rate because people don’t bother reporting it to the police. In my city, it’s not uncommon to wait on hold with 911 for up to 20 minutes at a time. If the police show up, it’s often hours later. When they do, they will typically tell you there’s nothing they can do, especially if the crime in question is a property crime. The best you can hope for is a police report. In my city, car theft has become so rampant that a whole new subreddit has emerged specifically to track stolen cars here. Groups of citizens with guns sometimes organize on Facebook to go reclaim stolen vehicles from homeless encampments. Catalytic converter theft is also rampant. My street has been hit multiple times. Our shared mailboxes have been broken into over and over again. Stores in my neighborhood routinely experience break-ins and thefts. Shootings are through the roof. In October 2019, there were 28 shootings in my city. In October 2020, there were 88, and in October 2021 there were 129. Sometimes, when the thermometer reads 98.6, it’s because the patient is healthy. But sometimes, it’s because the thermometer is broken.
- leet_thow 5y ago
  Must be Portland
redis_mlc 5y ago
The only reliable statistic across US cities now is murders, since those have to be counted. (NY Mayor de Blasio earlier this week tried to use "index counts", ie. merged murder and non-murder data, and nobody will accept that deflection.) For non-murders, victims have simply stopped reporting. In California, we also have thefts under $950 being misdemeanors. ie. the police won't even show up to take a report, so not counted. We know this for several reasons, but the main indicator is that when one Target location recently decided to report each shoplifting count, it dominated SF's city-wide theft stats during that period - a single store. Oh, and stop being a useful idiot, comrade.
mrctte 5y ago
I’ve read that police simply aren't reporting low level crimes at the rate they used to due to staffing shortages and apathy. I would be curious to see the data too, but I doubt it paints the whole picture.
dragonwriter 5y ago
There’s been a spike in 2021 from 2020, so they are up from historic lows, but they are still pretty low on a long-term scale. Here’s one article on the spike (but there are lots, from different sources and regions): https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/crime-rate-in-san-francisco-oakland-increased-this-year-data/ https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/crime-rate-in-san-franci...

wolverine876 5y ago

There is a political aspect too: The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election. It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact.

zepto 5y ago
It seems like you keep pushing the narrative that problems with SF are not real and a fabrication of the GOP. You have posted multiple comments doing this. But you don’t live in SF and have no firsthand knowledge. All you are doing is advancing your own political agenda from a remote location through online commenting, with no regard to the truth people here are witnessing.
- koshergweilo 5y ago
  > with no regard to the truth people here are witnessing I mean, a bunch of anecdotes are still a bunch of anecdotes. Especially on an anonymous internet forum. > All you are doing is advancing your own political agenda from a remote location through online commenting You could say the same thing about those anecdotes you're referring to. For what it's worth there's plenty of other anecdotes to the contrary. I live in the Bay Area and SF is a fun, beautiful city except for the Tenderloin and some parts of Mission street. I'm glad the local government finally taking their heads out of the sand and doing something. Though it's a complicated issue with no easy answers and frankly I'm not holding my breath
  - zepto 5y ago
    > You could say the same thing about those anecdotes you're referring to. No, they are not the same. People here are posting what they have experienced. The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That person does not live in SF and is not reporting their own experience. Only what they have read. For them to be true, you’d have to accuse the people reporting their experiences of lying, while taking the poster I was replying to at face value. That would be delusional. I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary. Your opinion about SF is certainly valid, but has nothing to do with a distant person talking about GOP memes.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      > The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That's not what I said. (EDIT: For what it's worth, regarding political polarization, I just 'vouched' for your formerly 'dead' comment to me above. While I disagree and don't love how it's handled, it shouldn't be killed IMHO.)
      - zepto 5y ago
        > That's not what I said. It sure looks like that is what you are saying: > The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election. It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact. As for vouching - thanks! Since I haven’t said anything politically polarized, I can only assume I was flagged by people who are.
        wolverine876 5y ago
        Maybe notice that everyone but you is polarized.
        5y ago
- wolverine876 5y ago
  It may seem like that, but it is not in my words. Perhaps it's a result of political polarization and the suspicions it creates? Let's do away with that. I only meant what I said.
  - zepto 5y ago
    > The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election. It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact. It sure looks like what you are saying. If you want to play games about it not being your precise wording, you can do that on your own. The only person making politically charged statements here is you.
- diogenescynic 5y ago
  That person isn't even from SF and only has an ideological agenda in this. They should be ignored.

swearwolf 5y ago

I live in a west coast city that has seen an explosion in crime, much like San Francisco. While anecdotal evidence is not the same as data, I can tell you from my own experience and those of many others I’ve talked to, you won’t see the data reflecting the true crime rate because people don’t bother reporting it to the police. In my city, it’s not uncommon to wait on hold with 911 for up to 20 minutes at a time. If the police show up, it’s often hours later. When they do, they will typically tell you there’s nothing they can do, especially if the crime in question is a property crime. The best you can hope for is a police report. In my city, car theft has become so rampant that a whole new subreddit has emerged specifically to track stolen cars here. Groups of citizens with guns sometimes organize on Facebook to go reclaim stolen vehicles from homeless encampments. Catalytic converter theft is also rampant. My street has been hit multiple times. Our shared mailboxes have been broken into over and over again. Stores in my neighborhood routinely experience break-ins and thefts. Shootings are through the roof. In October 2019, there were 28 shootings in my city. In October 2020, there were 88, and in October 2021 there were 129. Sometimes, when the thermometer reads 98.6, it’s because the patient is healthy. But sometimes, it’s because the thermometer is broken.

leet_thow 5y ago
Must be Portland

redis_mlc 5y ago

The only reliable statistic across US cities now is murders, since those have to be counted. (NY Mayor de Blasio earlier this week tried to use "index counts", ie. merged murder and non-murder data, and nobody will accept that deflection.) For non-murders, victims have simply stopped reporting. In California, we also have thefts under $950 being misdemeanors. ie. the police won't even show up to take a report, so not counted. We know this for several reasons, but the main indicator is that when one Target location recently decided to report each shoplifting count, it dominated SF's city-wide theft stats during that period - a single store. Oh, and stop being a useful idiot, comrade.

mrctte 5y ago

I’ve read that police simply aren't reporting low level crimes at the rate they used to due to staffing shortages and apathy. I would be curious to see the data too, but I doubt it paints the whole picture.

dragonwriter 5y ago

There’s been a spike in 2021 from 2020, so they are up from historic lows, but they are still pretty low on a long-term scale. Here’s one article on the spike (but there are lots, from different sources and regions): https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/crime-rate-in-san-francisco-oakland-increased-this-year-data/ https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/crime-rate-in-san-franci...