4 ms·

I don’t think the people living on the streets of the tenderloin are there because of housing prices. They’re there because of drug and mental health issues.

I don’t think the people living on the streets of the tenderloin are there because of housing prices. They’re there because of drug and mental health issues. In Europe, they’re not tolerant of drug use on the streets. Even in cities where it’s decriminalized. On the flip side, in countries with mass poverty issues and mass homelessness - the slums aren’t necessarily a place of rampant and constant drug usage. (You still see grinding poverty and families on the street, but it’s different)

pvarangot 5y ago
> In Europe, they’re not tolerant of drug use on the streets. Even in cities where it’s decriminalized. Ehm Berlin and Frankfurt are pretty much Europe and there's open drug use and selling on "sanctuary districts", same as San Francisco. On Frankfurt it's more blatant because it's right by the train station, but a little bit more nuanced than in SF because they have "safe drug use houses" so people don't do it in the sidewalk.
cletus 5y ago
You can't look at tolerance for open drug use in isolation. It's part of a complete system that includes a social safety net, access to medical care, treatment for mental health issues and the initial conditions that cause people to become drug dependent in the first place. Europe understands that people are entitled to and deserve a basic standard of living. It largely explains why the EU has expanded eastwards into former Soviet bloc countries where people are much poorer. The EU as a whole takes an economic hit for that but it's an undeniable good for those poorer members. Whereas in the US, people seem to be stuck in a 19th century "every man for himself" frontier cosplay.
- refurb 5y ago
  Huh? Go to the downtown east side of Vancouver and it’s as bad if not worse than SF. And all those folks have free healthcare, plenty of social services and even clean injection sites. That didn’t solve the problem in the least. It certainly reduces harm, but not drug use.
- ransom1538 5y ago
  [deleted]
  - jankyxenon 5y ago
    Are you talking about the Marshall plan and the Cold War or something? What would the mechanism be of Europe’s disintegration if the US pulled out of the EU today?
rat87 5y ago
I'm pretty sure homelessness would go down significantly if housing was available. Drug and mental issues are significant but they're more easily treatable of people are housed, and it's easier to help more people with housing if housing costs to pay/subsidize isn't sky high. And if we build a LOT more prices will go down. https://www.slowboring.com/p/homelessness-housing https://www.slowboring.com/p/homelessness-housing
- jankyxenon 5y ago
  I’m all for a monstrous building spree in places like SF. It’ll solve a lot of problems. But - at the risk of sounding callous - why would someone down and out on the streets of the Tenderloin think, even if they completely sober up and clean themselves up, that it’s a long-term sustainable option to live in one of the highest cost of living cities in the world.
kelnos 5y ago
Not sure about the Tenderloin specifically, but often the causality is the reverse of what you suggest: people develop mental health and drug issues due to the pressures they face after becoming homeless.
- ransom1538 5y ago
  Nope. You lose your family, friends and home after falling deep into drug abuse. You have it backwards.

pvarangot 5y ago

> In Europe, they’re not tolerant of drug use on the streets. Even in cities where it’s decriminalized. Ehm Berlin and Frankfurt are pretty much Europe and there's open drug use and selling on "sanctuary districts", same as San Francisco. On Frankfurt it's more blatant because it's right by the train station, but a little bit more nuanced than in SF because they have "safe drug use houses" so people don't do it in the sidewalk.

cletus 5y ago

You can't look at tolerance for open drug use in isolation. It's part of a complete system that includes a social safety net, access to medical care, treatment for mental health issues and the initial conditions that cause people to become drug dependent in the first place. Europe understands that people are entitled to and deserve a basic standard of living. It largely explains why the EU has expanded eastwards into former Soviet bloc countries where people are much poorer. The EU as a whole takes an economic hit for that but it's an undeniable good for those poorer members. Whereas in the US, people seem to be stuck in a 19th century "every man for himself" frontier cosplay.

refurb 5y ago
Huh? Go to the downtown east side of Vancouver and it’s as bad if not worse than SF. And all those folks have free healthcare, plenty of social services and even clean injection sites. That didn’t solve the problem in the least. It certainly reduces harm, but not drug use.
ransom1538 5y ago
[deleted]
- jankyxenon 5y ago
  Are you talking about the Marshall plan and the Cold War or something? What would the mechanism be of Europe’s disintegration if the US pulled out of the EU today?

rat87 5y ago

I'm pretty sure homelessness would go down significantly if housing was available. Drug and mental issues are significant but they're more easily treatable of people are housed, and it's easier to help more people with housing if housing costs to pay/subsidize isn't sky high. And if we build a LOT more prices will go down. https://www.slowboring.com/p/homelessness-housing https://www.slowboring.com/p/homelessness-housing

jankyxenon 5y ago
I’m all for a monstrous building spree in places like SF. It’ll solve a lot of problems. But - at the risk of sounding callous - why would someone down and out on the streets of the Tenderloin think, even if they completely sober up and clean themselves up, that it’s a long-term sustainable option to live in one of the highest cost of living cities in the world.

kelnos 5y ago

Not sure about the Tenderloin specifically, but often the causality is the reverse of what you suggest: people develop mental health and drug issues due to the pressures they face after becoming homeless.

ransom1538 5y ago
Nope. You lose your family, friends and home after falling deep into drug abuse. You have it backwards.