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> This article turns into a rant after the first few paragraphs, leaving me confused about the actual facts behind the story. Is it legal for the government to
by tablespoon 5y ago
> This article turns into a rant after the first few paragraphs, leaving me confused about the actual facts behind the story. Is it legal for the government to setup surveillance cameras on someone's land, to monitor their land? From the article, it sounds like this is exactly what was done.
Yeah, the linked article is garbage. You have to follow one of the links to even find the most basic facts about the case from the headline (like what agency put up the cameras and why):
https://ij.org/case/tennessee-open-fields/ https://ij.org/case/tennessee-open-fields/:
> Officers from the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency (TWRA) routinely enter private land on a whim to search for potential hunting violations. They don’t have probable cause to believe a crime is being committed, and they don’t ask permission from either property owners or a court. Instead, they trespass, wander around as they please, and take photos and videos. They even install cameras so they can keep watching the properties 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
- User23 5y agoGame wardens have shockingly broad authority. It goes back to the English common law. You don’t actually own land you just hold it fee simple and the Crown, or the State in America, actually has the right to all game. They can even enter your house without a warrant to, for example, check freezers. And if they find anything you’d have best tagged it properly. However all the game wardens I know aren’t looking to just randomly harass people. There is usually a good reason when they go after someone, like shooting from a motor vehicle on the road.
- TechBro8615 5y agoCan you cite the legal authority that exempts game wardens from the restrictions imposed on the executive by the constitution? For example, the fourth amendment protects US citizens from warrentless searches. Does this not apply to searches of your property by game wardens? I understand that English common law may have this notion of “lease holding” (if you buy property in the UK you’re technically renting it for 999 years from the queen). However, America is not England and in this country you actually own your property (and in many states can defend it with lethal force). So where is this authority coming from?
- User23 5y agoHere you go[1]. The rights it refers to are the old Common Law rights. And no, poached game isn’t “papers and effects.” Also land patents and allodial title[2] are virtually extinct in the USA. We all are renting our property. Stop paying your “property tax” if you’d like confirmation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allodial_title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allodial_title
- woodruffw 5y agoAllodial title is one specific kind of title structure. It’s not the only form of ownership, as the phrase structure “X title” implies. Having to pay taxes on your property invalidates the nature of property no more than paying income tax invalidates the nature of income.
- User23 5y agoWrong. Legally speaking the State is your superior landlord. “Property tax” is legally a rent you pay to the state. The federal income tax is an entirely different creature, created by the 16th amendment. It’s completely incomparable legally. Title held in allod is subject to no superior landlord. That means it can’t be taxed or liened or otherwise legally encumbered. Edit: > And the fact that the state has a superior title in extremely limited circumstances doesn't make it a landlord. Nah[1]. [1] https://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/rpt/2005-r-0560.htm https://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/rpt/2005-r-0560.htm
- woodruffw 5y agoThe problem with these tortured uses of "landlord," "taxes as rent," etc. is that they go both ways: I can observe that a superior title is still subject to the whims of The Man With The Big Stick, and that any funds you spend preparing your land for defense against The Main With The Big Stick's changing whims is a de facto tax on you. But that's silly, because it isn't really a tax. And the fact that the state has a superior title in extremely limited circumstances doesn't make it a landlord.
- neaden 5y agoI don't think this is true. Game wardens cannot enter your house to search it without a warrant, and you certainly don't always have to have meat tagged.
- User23 5y agoI’m afraid it is[1]. It’s straight up medieval Sheriff of Nottingham authority. Feel free to check with an attorney in your state. [1] https://www.quora.com/Can-a-game-warden-come-into-your-house-and-check-the-freezer-for-game-meat-without-a-warrant?share=1 https://www.quora.com/Can-a-game-warden-come-into-your-house...
- rootusrootus 5y agoTrying to find an authoritative source for this claim leads to a mountain of right-wing sites asserting it to be correct, along with some sites saying it is bunk. Lacking is an actual, reputable source that addresses the question. Seems like this question is more conspiracy theory than anything.
- User23 5y agoAs I said, call an attorney in your state and ask. I’m not offering legal advice, I’m just telling you what everyone with a hunting license knows. Poor Google search results don’t change the law. Edit: Imagine thinking that acknowledging an odious but legal government power is “SovCit garbage.” By all means, mess with a game warden and see what happens. It’s about as stupid as sassing customs.