4 ms·

What would you call positively helping the poor and unhoused that also results in literally cleaner and safer streets?

by bostonsre 5y ago

woodruffw 5y ago
Offering them some form of housing that provides a modicum of humanizing privacy would be a great start.
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  ~50% of the homeless are severely mentally ill and/or on hard drugs, giving them housing won't fix their behavioral problems.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    I didn’t say it would. I don’t need to advocate for a panacea to think that we should humanize the homeless and offer them permanent, private shelter.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > giving them housing won't fix their behavioral problems. What is that based on? My understanding from experts is that housing provides people with the stability to address their other problems. It's a valuable first step. Imagine trying to deal with whatever your problems are today if you also were homeless. Now imagine your problems are far worse, food is an issue, and emotionally debilitating. Even well-housed people I know have a hard time dealing with their long-term problems. Add some more stress to their lives and they fall apart. > ~50% of the homeless are severely mentally ill and/or on hard drugs Where does that number come from? AFAIK, medical bills are a leading cause of homelessness.
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    > giving them housing won't fix their behavioral problems Citation needed. Mental illness is very unlikely to improve if someone is sleeping under a bridge. Just like pneumonia. Besides, free mental health services and nationalized healthcare exist for a reason.
- cmckn 5y ago
  Have there been any recent attempts at providing this? Seattle has had some success creating tiny house communities, I just saw one the other day and it was really cool!
  - diogenescynic 5y ago
    Tiny house communities is good branding for slums. Weird how we are going backwards with property codes and rule of law in general. Ironically it’s the Shitlibs and neo-liberals who seem to be implementing some weird libertarian Ancapistan dystopia which is fine for the rich with private security but everyone else is on their own.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    I’m not sure about recently, but NYC has had a court-enforced housing mandate for decades now.
eyko 5y ago
Some would probably call it stigmatising poverty or something along those lines.
thomasahle 5y ago
The Tenderloin plan apparently has the following priorities: Preventing violent crime; Streamlining emergency medical calls; Interrupting open air-drug dealing; Interrupting open-air substance abuse; Establishing safe passage and accessibility for citizens; Expanding housing resources; Interrupting illegal vending; Improving neighborhood cleanliness; Only point 6 is about actually helping the homeless.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  ...and 4 points are about hiding the problems instead of solving them.
- diebeforei485 5y ago
  What if I told you that there are plenty of people and families in the Tenderloin that face public safety issues on the daily on their way to school? Now that a safe injection site is opening, we need no longer tolerate people injecting needles into themselves on the streets. Maybe you think what's going on in the Tenderloin (and Soma) is acceptable. But if so, you're in the minority now. No one should be subjected to being harassed by psychotic people while picking up household necessities at Target on a Saturday afternoon. After all these years people's patience is wearing thin.
  - thomasahle 5y ago
    > Maybe you think what's going on in the Tenderloin (and Soma) is acceptable. I definitely don't think things are good as they are now. And I would highly appreciate programs that help the homeless as well as cleans things up. > What if I told you that there are plenty of people and families in the Tenderloin that face public safety issues on the daily on their way to school? If you read the post I was replying too, bostonsre was describing this program as mainly about helping the poor, and with cleaning up as a side effect. In reality the program mostly talks about the cleaning up side of things. That's all.
    - diogenescynic 5y ago
      What would help the homeless that SF isn’t already doing? City already offers them shelter and services. And most refuse because the pay don’t want to obey any rules. There’s always this constant rhetoric that more needs to be done but frankly SF is already doing a ton but it’s all optional… it needs to be mandator. Either you accept the housing, or we arrest you for blocking public sidewalks. Either you accept drug counseling, or we arrest you for drug possession. If there is no carrot and stick approach, people will just keep using. And now that meth and heroin are decriminalized and theft is decriminalized, it’s obvious why things are only getting worse.

What would you call positively helping the poor and unhoused that also results in literally cleaner and safer streets?

woodruffw 5y ago

Offering them some form of housing that provides a modicum of humanizing privacy would be a great start.

HideousKojima 5y ago
~50% of the homeless are severely mentally ill and/or on hard drugs, giving them housing won't fix their behavioral problems.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- woodruffw 5y ago
  I didn’t say it would. I don’t need to advocate for a panacea to think that we should humanize the homeless and offer them permanent, private shelter.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > giving them housing won't fix their behavioral problems. What is that based on? My understanding from experts is that housing provides people with the stability to address their other problems. It's a valuable first step. Imagine trying to deal with whatever your problems are today if you also were homeless. Now imagine your problems are far worse, food is an issue, and emotionally debilitating. Even well-housed people I know have a hard time dealing with their long-term problems. Add some more stress to their lives and they fall apart. > ~50% of the homeless are severely mentally ill and/or on hard drugs Where does that number come from? AFAIK, medical bills are a leading cause of homelessness.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > giving them housing won't fix their behavioral problems Citation needed. Mental illness is very unlikely to improve if someone is sleeping under a bridge. Just like pneumonia. Besides, free mental health services and nationalized healthcare exist for a reason.
cmckn 5y ago
Have there been any recent attempts at providing this? Seattle has had some success creating tiny house communities, I just saw one the other day and it was really cool!
- diogenescynic 5y ago
  Tiny house communities is good branding for slums. Weird how we are going backwards with property codes and rule of law in general. Ironically it’s the Shitlibs and neo-liberals who seem to be implementing some weird libertarian Ancapistan dystopia which is fine for the rich with private security but everyone else is on their own.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  I’m not sure about recently, but NYC has had a court-enforced housing mandate for decades now.

eyko 5y ago

Some would probably call it stigmatising poverty or something along those lines.

thomasahle 5y ago

The Tenderloin plan apparently has the following priorities: Preventing violent crime; Streamlining emergency medical calls; Interrupting open air-drug dealing; Interrupting open-air substance abuse; Establishing safe passage and accessibility for citizens; Expanding housing resources; Interrupting illegal vending; Improving neighborhood cleanliness; Only point 6 is about actually helping the homeless.

goodpoint 5y ago
...and 4 points are about hiding the problems instead of solving them.
diebeforei485 5y ago
What if I told you that there are plenty of people and families in the Tenderloin that face public safety issues on the daily on their way to school? Now that a safe injection site is opening, we need no longer tolerate people injecting needles into themselves on the streets. Maybe you think what's going on in the Tenderloin (and Soma) is acceptable. But if so, you're in the minority now. No one should be subjected to being harassed by psychotic people while picking up household necessities at Target on a Saturday afternoon. After all these years people's patience is wearing thin.
- thomasahle 5y ago
  > Maybe you think what's going on in the Tenderloin (and Soma) is acceptable. I definitely don't think things are good as they are now. And I would highly appreciate programs that help the homeless as well as cleans things up. > What if I told you that there are plenty of people and families in the Tenderloin that face public safety issues on the daily on their way to school? If you read the post I was replying too, bostonsre was describing this program as mainly about helping the poor, and with cleaning up as a side effect. In reality the program mostly talks about the cleaning up side of things. That's all.
  - diogenescynic 5y ago
    What would help the homeless that SF isn’t already doing? City already offers them shelter and services. And most refuse because the pay don’t want to obey any rules. There’s always this constant rhetoric that more needs to be done but frankly SF is already doing a ton but it’s all optional… it needs to be mandator. Either you accept the housing, or we arrest you for blocking public sidewalks. Either you accept drug counseling, or we arrest you for drug possession. If there is no carrot and stick approach, people will just keep using. And now that meth and heroin are decriminalized and theft is decriminalized, it’s obvious why things are only getting worse.