5 ms·

You know who had this? The USSR. This is about ending private banking. It's as bad as an idea as communism.

vore 5y ago
I think you need to come up with a more compelling point against this than "the USSR had it". You know who had public transport? The USSR. Public transport is as bad as an idea as communism.
- slt2021 5y ago
  suddenly, current state of public transport in the US makes sense
- ohCh6zos 5y ago
  I suspect you’re joking but I think there’s a good argument to be had for now allowing the government to have any influence in transportation.
- genocidicbunny 5y ago
  Annoyingly, it had better public transit than the majority of the US does!
- splitstud 5y ago
  No. Someone needs to come up with a compelling reason to change our practices first.
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    Isn't sorry state of banking in US compared to pretty much everywhere in the world a compelling reason?
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Oh well, there goes any chance of getting district heating this lifetime
toomuchtodo 5y ago
I want the end of private banking for your average deposit accounts [1]. Commercial banks don't make money off the accounts unless they can charge extortionate fees (overdrafts) [2], and credit/debit interchange is going down drastically when Fed instant payments roll out in 2023 (they are showcasing functional apps/use cases internally in the next few months, and are on schedule for their go live date). Government is accountable to its citizens, commercial banks to their shareholders. The logical conclusion is to offer deposit accounts and instant payments to all as a utility, and support infrastructure to allow other institutions (private banks, fintechs, etc) to extend credit. But to equate public good deposit accounts, simple rows in a database tracking fiat, with communism is grossly disingenuous. Shall I defend the US Post Office, Social Security, and Medicare (other wildly successful public goods with high approval ratings) against being painted as "communism" as well? These are fundamental components and public goods of a developed society, and financial infrastructure falls into such a category (as you cannot live without it, and if you attempt to, you are going to learn how expensive and hard it is to be unbanked/underbanked). [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=fedaccounts https://www.google.com/search?q=fedaccounts [2] https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/ https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/
- alexnewman 5y ago
  You have to understand that banks make the money they lend. Banks do not lend against reserves. https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m... Giving this control to the government is a bad idea and will lead to the solviet-zation of the banking industry.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    I am familiar with fractional reserve banking. Banks can obtain capital through other mechanisms than deposit accounts (CDs, bonds, etc) to enable their lending operations (mortgage debt, credit card debt, and auto loans are already securitized on the bond market, for example) and profit off of the (hopefully properly risk managed) spread. Commercial banks are not entitled to the deposits of citizens, nor should citizens have their financial lives beholden to commercial banks rent seeking off of their deposit accounts and cashflow. To your point about "giving this control to government", they already have it; they are the ones who set reserve requirements and oversee commercial banks (by way of the Fed and the OCC). Wells Fargo, Chase, and Bank of America are what soviet run banks would look like; wide spread abuses without sufficient repercussions to disincentivize reoccurrences (Wells [1]) and poor service for customers with the spoils funneled to the top (JPMC and BoA). [1] https://www.yahoo.com/now/wells-fargo-scandals-the-complete-timeline-141213414.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/wells-fargo-scandals-the-complete-...
BoiledCabbage 5y ago
USSR Communism also had a fire department - should we get rid of that as well? Argue on the merits of something, not because a county had it or didn't.
- weflkjljkerg 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - weflkjljkerg 5y ago
    [flagged]
- missedthecue 5y ago
  Denmark has privatised most of their fire departments interestingly enough
- alexnewman 5y ago
  If the USSR has things the USA didn't we should be very careful about adopting those things if it increases state power. It was a tyranny afterall
saba2008 5y ago
Lack of private banking is pretty minor aspect. Comparing to, say, having de-facto scrip instead of proper currency.

vore 5y ago

I think you need to come up with a more compelling point against this than "the USSR had it". You know who had public transport? The USSR. Public transport is as bad as an idea as communism.

slt2021 5y ago
suddenly, current state of public transport in the US makes sense
ohCh6zos 5y ago
I suspect you’re joking but I think there’s a good argument to be had for now allowing the government to have any influence in transportation.
genocidicbunny 5y ago
Annoyingly, it had better public transit than the majority of the US does!
splitstud 5y ago
No. Someone needs to come up with a compelling reason to change our practices first.
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  Isn't sorry state of banking in US compared to pretty much everywhere in the world a compelling reason?
selimthegrim 5y ago
Oh well, there goes any chance of getting district heating this lifetime

toomuchtodo 5y ago

I want the end of private banking for your average deposit accounts [1]. Commercial banks don't make money off the accounts unless they can charge extortionate fees (overdrafts) [2], and credit/debit interchange is going down drastically when Fed instant payments roll out in 2023 (they are showcasing functional apps/use cases internally in the next few months, and are on schedule for their go live date). Government is accountable to its citizens, commercial banks to their shareholders. The logical conclusion is to offer deposit accounts and instant payments to all as a utility, and support infrastructure to allow other institutions (private banks, fintechs, etc) to extend credit. But to equate public good deposit accounts, simple rows in a database tracking fiat, with communism is grossly disingenuous. Shall I defend the US Post Office, Social Security, and Medicare (other wildly successful public goods with high approval ratings) against being painted as "communism" as well? These are fundamental components and public goods of a developed society, and financial infrastructure falls into such a category (as you cannot live without it, and if you attempt to, you are going to learn how expensive and hard it is to be unbanked/underbanked). [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=fedaccounts https://www.google.com/search?q=fedaccounts [2] https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/ https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/

alexnewman 5y ago
You have to understand that banks make the money they lend. Banks do not lend against reserves. https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m... Giving this control to the government is a bad idea and will lead to the solviet-zation of the banking industry.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  I am familiar with fractional reserve banking. Banks can obtain capital through other mechanisms than deposit accounts (CDs, bonds, etc) to enable their lending operations (mortgage debt, credit card debt, and auto loans are already securitized on the bond market, for example) and profit off of the (hopefully properly risk managed) spread. Commercial banks are not entitled to the deposits of citizens, nor should citizens have their financial lives beholden to commercial banks rent seeking off of their deposit accounts and cashflow. To your point about "giving this control to government", they already have it; they are the ones who set reserve requirements and oversee commercial banks (by way of the Fed and the OCC). Wells Fargo, Chase, and Bank of America are what soviet run banks would look like; wide spread abuses without sufficient repercussions to disincentivize reoccurrences (Wells [1]) and poor service for customers with the spoils funneled to the top (JPMC and BoA). [1] https://www.yahoo.com/now/wells-fargo-scandals-the-complete-timeline-141213414.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/wells-fargo-scandals-the-complete-...

BoiledCabbage 5y ago

USSR Communism also had a fire department - should we get rid of that as well? Argue on the merits of something, not because a county had it or didn't.

weflkjljkerg 5y ago
[flagged]
- weflkjljkerg 5y ago
  [flagged]
missedthecue 5y ago
Denmark has privatised most of their fire departments interestingly enough
alexnewman 5y ago
If the USSR has things the USA didn't we should be very careful about adopting those things if it increases state power. It was a tyranny afterall

saba2008 5y ago

Lack of private banking is pretty minor aspect. Comparing to, say, having de-facto scrip instead of proper currency.