5 ms·

> Is it really that weird? Let's be decisive about this. Yes, it is weird, and not just weird, also unethical, even if your job takes all your time, leaving n

> Is it really that weird? Let's be decisive about this. Yes, it is weird, and not just weird, also unethical, even if your job takes all your time, leaving no time for social life, and you're really really lonely, or you really really like someone, it is still weird. It is saying, "I work here, so I am entitled to engage in activity for which I was not hired, has nothing whatsoever to do with the work yet I will be paid while I do it because I do it on company time, as well as, at the very least distracting, if not disturbing, harassing, and threatening coworkers." That said, it is also a really bad idea if you care about the job, but I expect anyone who engages in that activity could not care less about the job. There is an idiom that applies here, "don't shit where you eat."

adamrezich 5y ago
it's not weird at all for feelings of attraction between people who see each other every day to form, and for one or both of them to pursue a romantic relationship as a result. this happened many many times in both of our lineages such that we were born and exist today, because humans are social creatures and at some point we evolved beyond just raping each other to procreate. now obviously, offices aren't purely social spaces, you are there to get work done. but what kind of office do you work at where nobody interacts in any way that isn't 100% related to accomplishing work tasks? what makes seeking out a romantic partner at work "weird" compared to seeking out a friendship? (assuming rejection, etc. is handled gracefully—obviously, there's always risk in asking someone out.) (disclaimer: met my wife-to-be at work. (disclaimer: said work was at Walmart, between programming jobs.))
- Maursault 5y ago
  Congratulations, honestly, and there's nothing wrong with working at WalMart, so the context is unnecessary. But here's the thing: you both violated your employment contract with WalMart, which I doubt explicitly forbids it, but it is exceedingly unlikely your job was ever intended to include romance, to literally pay you to meet and romance your future wife, or vice versa. That's why it is clearly unethical, and obviously many have succumbed to this moral hazard and unsurprisingly incorrectly believe it is appropriate behavior. What you do when you're not working is your business. What you do while working for your employer is their business. Either you made your romance WalMart's business, or you have deceived and stolen wages from WalMart. I think one of Kant's categorical imperatives may make this clearer: "act only in accordance with that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it become a universal law.” Imagine you have 100 employees working for you and your business is competitive. How many coupled romances initiated among them while at work would you tolerate on your dime? If your answer is not "50," then we have a problem, whether it is psychological egoism, narcissism, or just run-of-the-mill hypocrisy. And if your answer is "50," it is likely your business won't be able to compete for tolerating your employees screwing around at work, because you're just paying them not to work. I doubt that could be profitable.
  - adamrezich 5y ago
    thank you, but this worldview has little connection to reality. people date at work all the time. people date at work at Walmart all the time. if you want to date someone and either of you is in a position of power over the other, they move one of you to a different department. at another Walmart I worked at years ago, a CSM (cashier manager basically) wanted to date the general manager, so she had to quit, because there was no way to make that work while remaining ethical. where does this idea you have that when you clock in for the day, you somehow shed your humanity and become a personality-less labor-husk, for the duration of the day, until clock-out time, come from? I have made tons of friends at work, both from doing work with them and shooting the shit in-between. this is how my wife-to-be and I met, by doing work together, chatting all the while, and realizing we shared a lot of values and that we should probably be dating. I have never been in a work environment where something like this was explicitly nor implicitly forbidden, because that would be an insane job for crazy people. your perspective is entirely foreign to me, and, judging by my above post's score, many other people as well.
    - Maursault 5y ago
      People steal all the time. People murder, happens every single day. By your judgement, theft and murder is ok, because it happens all the time. This analogy neatly destroys your argument, because it doesn't matter how many people do something, the popularity of an activity does not determine if it is "ok." And refraining from romantic pursuit while working does not remotely remove one's humanity. It is simply maturity that permits restraint. In fact, humanity requires empathy. Try to empathize with someone who is trying to work. Let's say you're trying to work, and someone you must work closely with is making advances towards you and you're not interested. Does that make work a lot easier? Imagine the same situation, but your advances are not wanted... still have to work with them, but now it is going to be far less comfortable. If you can't see how insane it would be if everyone behaved this way, I just don't know how to persuade you that it is wrong. Because if it is wrong for everyone to behave this way, it is wrong for a single individual to behave this way.
      - adamrezich 5y ago
TigeriusKirk 5y ago
It's definitely not weird. It's quite common and normal. It takes some social awareness to know when it's appropriate and when it isn't. A lot of people lack that level of social awareness and for them the best plan is to avoid such situations. But it's still common, and it's still not weird.
- Maursault 5y ago
  No, it absolutely is weird, but also unethical. Sure, people do it, but it is still weird and unethical, and I don't care how socially aware you believe you are or how comfortable you are doing it. Also, common? Sure, but not in the sense you mean. You mean it is prevalent. Of course I have not worked everywhere, but I disagree. I'd say it is less than a tenth of a percent of individuals like yourself that would engage in romance while working. Such a small percentage doesn't make it prevalent, instead that makes it an exception. I suppose if your office romance doesn't work out, you're perfectly comfortable with that outcome and move on to other coworkers like the office is your personal brunch buffet. You can meet people pretty much anywhere, but the one place that it is tasteless to romantically socialize is the place you are being paid to work. You see, normal mentally healthy people don't need to find romance at work, though they're socially aware enough to do so, they simply don't need to because they probably don't have such minuscule prospects. Mentally healthy individuals will not, by and large, need to take advantage of having such a captive audience as a colleague or coworker or staff that is stuck at work, working. What is far more prevalent, thank goodness, is that most don't treat their boss's office like a singles bar. In all honesty, your post is the creepiest thing I've read all week. What if what you interpret as social awareness is instead a deficit of self-awareness or oblivion? Because if you behave this way, you are completely unaware of or simply do not care how others feel. It's probably the former, which you probably hide with the latter. You don't know, so you you'll tend to say you don't care. Other behavior that is not OK? Even when you're not working, it's really not ok to try to romance someone who is working. People do it, but it sucks. Even a little harmless flirting with a cashier you think is cute is less than ideal behavior. I refer again to the captive audience part. Try romancing someone who can get away from you, if they wish, without jeopardizing their job. Like at a bar. Can you find romance in a bar or singles mixer instead? Because I guarantee you any innocent bystanders to your romantic prowess would prefer it occured anywhere but where they work. But you would know that if you're socially aware.
ectopod 5y ago
Since you raise the subject, getting paid for it is one of the best things about taking a shit at work.
- DaveExeter 5y ago
  "Boss makes a dollar I make a dime. That's why I poop on company time!" -- Eugene Debs
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't do this here.
rowanG077 5y ago
Let's be decisive about this. Yes, it is weird, and not just weird, also unethical, even if your job takes all your time, leaving no time for taking a shit, and you really really need to go badly, or you really really have a stomachache, it is still weird. It is saying, "I work here, so I am entitled to engage in activity for which I was not hired, has nothing whatsoever to do with the work yet I will be paid while I do it because I do it on company time, as well as, at the very least distracting, if not disturbing, harassing, and threatening coworkers with the smell and noises." That said, it is also a really bad idea if you care about the job, but I expect anyone who engages in that activity could not care less about the job. There is an idiom that applies here, "don't shit where you eat."
NoboruWataya 5y ago
I can be equally decisive in saying it is absolutely not weird. Until very recently it was pretty much one of the most normal things in the world. Various other commenters have posted sources that the workplace is (and has been for a long time) one of the most common places for couples to meet. Humans are social creatures, we always have and likely always will socialize at work, even if it's not in our job description.
- Maursault 5y ago
  Let's say everyone in the world thinks it's ok to steal. Let's say stealing became so prevalent, it was normal and common. Would this make stealing ethical? Weird is a poor descriptor. In the case of entitlement to take time on your employer's clock to engage in activity for which you were not hired to perform is simply and unabashedly unethical. It is stealing, no matter how many do it, it is still stealing. But there is another angle that also makes it unethical, and that is that your romantic focus at work is necessarily a captive of their workplace. It would be different under different circumstances, such as meeting someone at a social gathering and turning on the charm for romantic interest, because they're not going to lose their job nor create a toxic work environment should they rebuff your advances. When you target a romantic interest in the workplace, you are taking advantage of the others' inability to choose not to be romanced. Is it imperative to you that you be permitted indulge your entitlement to behave this way at work? Can't you do it instead somewhere, anywhere else?

adamrezich 5y ago

it's not weird at all for feelings of attraction between people who see each other every day to form, and for one or both of them to pursue a romantic relationship as a result. this happened many many times in both of our lineages such that we were born and exist today, because humans are social creatures and at some point we evolved beyond just raping each other to procreate. now obviously, offices aren't purely social spaces, you are there to get work done. but what kind of office do you work at where nobody interacts in any way that isn't 100% related to accomplishing work tasks? what makes seeking out a romantic partner at work "weird" compared to seeking out a friendship? (assuming rejection, etc. is handled gracefully—obviously, there's always risk in asking someone out.) (disclaimer: met my wife-to-be at work. (disclaimer: said work was at Walmart, between programming jobs.))

Maursault 5y ago
Congratulations, honestly, and there's nothing wrong with working at WalMart, so the context is unnecessary. But here's the thing: you both violated your employment contract with WalMart, which I doubt explicitly forbids it, but it is exceedingly unlikely your job was ever intended to include romance, to literally pay you to meet and romance your future wife, or vice versa. That's why it is clearly unethical, and obviously many have succumbed to this moral hazard and unsurprisingly incorrectly believe it is appropriate behavior. What you do when you're not working is your business. What you do while working for your employer is their business. Either you made your romance WalMart's business, or you have deceived and stolen wages from WalMart. I think one of Kant's categorical imperatives may make this clearer: "act only in accordance with that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it become a universal law.” Imagine you have 100 employees working for you and your business is competitive. How many coupled romances initiated among them while at work would you tolerate on your dime? If your answer is not "50," then we have a problem, whether it is psychological egoism, narcissism, or just run-of-the-mill hypocrisy. And if your answer is "50," it is likely your business won't be able to compete for tolerating your employees screwing around at work, because you're just paying them not to work. I doubt that could be profitable.
- adamrezich 5y ago
  thank you, but this worldview has little connection to reality. people date at work all the time. people date at work at Walmart all the time. if you want to date someone and either of you is in a position of power over the other, they move one of you to a different department. at another Walmart I worked at years ago, a CSM (cashier manager basically) wanted to date the general manager, so she had to quit, because there was no way to make that work while remaining ethical. where does this idea you have that when you clock in for the day, you somehow shed your humanity and become a personality-less labor-husk, for the duration of the day, until clock-out time, come from? I have made tons of friends at work, both from doing work with them and shooting the shit in-between. this is how my wife-to-be and I met, by doing work together, chatting all the while, and realizing we shared a lot of values and that we should probably be dating. I have never been in a work environment where something like this was explicitly nor implicitly forbidden, because that would be an insane job for crazy people. your perspective is entirely foreign to me, and, judging by my above post's score, many other people as well.
  - Maursault 5y ago
    People steal all the time. People murder, happens every single day. By your judgement, theft and murder is ok, because it happens all the time. This analogy neatly destroys your argument, because it doesn't matter how many people do something, the popularity of an activity does not determine if it is "ok." And refraining from romantic pursuit while working does not remotely remove one's humanity. It is simply maturity that permits restraint. In fact, humanity requires empathy. Try to empathize with someone who is trying to work. Let's say you're trying to work, and someone you must work closely with is making advances towards you and you're not interested. Does that make work a lot easier? Imagine the same situation, but your advances are not wanted... still have to work with them, but now it is going to be far less comfortable. If you can't see how insane it would be if everyone behaved this way, I just don't know how to persuade you that it is wrong. Because if it is wrong for everyone to behave this way, it is wrong for a single individual to behave this way.
    - adamrezich 5y ago

TigeriusKirk 5y ago

It's definitely not weird. It's quite common and normal. It takes some social awareness to know when it's appropriate and when it isn't. A lot of people lack that level of social awareness and for them the best plan is to avoid such situations. But it's still common, and it's still not weird.

Maursault 5y ago
No, it absolutely is weird, but also unethical. Sure, people do it, but it is still weird and unethical, and I don't care how socially aware you believe you are or how comfortable you are doing it. Also, common? Sure, but not in the sense you mean. You mean it is prevalent. Of course I have not worked everywhere, but I disagree. I'd say it is less than a tenth of a percent of individuals like yourself that would engage in romance while working. Such a small percentage doesn't make it prevalent, instead that makes it an exception. I suppose if your office romance doesn't work out, you're perfectly comfortable with that outcome and move on to other coworkers like the office is your personal brunch buffet. You can meet people pretty much anywhere, but the one place that it is tasteless to romantically socialize is the place you are being paid to work. You see, normal mentally healthy people don't need to find romance at work, though they're socially aware enough to do so, they simply don't need to because they probably don't have such minuscule prospects. Mentally healthy individuals will not, by and large, need to take advantage of having such a captive audience as a colleague or coworker or staff that is stuck at work, working. What is far more prevalent, thank goodness, is that most don't treat their boss's office like a singles bar. In all honesty, your post is the creepiest thing I've read all week. What if what you interpret as social awareness is instead a deficit of self-awareness or oblivion? Because if you behave this way, you are completely unaware of or simply do not care how others feel. It's probably the former, which you probably hide with the latter. You don't know, so you you'll tend to say you don't care. Other behavior that is not OK? Even when you're not working, it's really not ok to try to romance someone who is working. People do it, but it sucks. Even a little harmless flirting with a cashier you think is cute is less than ideal behavior. I refer again to the captive audience part. Try romancing someone who can get away from you, if they wish, without jeopardizing their job. Like at a bar. Can you find romance in a bar or singles mixer instead? Because I guarantee you any innocent bystanders to your romantic prowess would prefer it occured anywhere but where they work. But you would know that if you're socially aware.

ectopod 5y ago

Since you raise the subject, getting paid for it is one of the best things about taking a shit at work.

DaveExeter 5y ago
"Boss makes a dollar I make a dime. That's why I poop on company time!" -- Eugene Debs
dang 5y ago
Please don't do this here.

rowanG077 5y ago

Let's be decisive about this. Yes, it is weird, and not just weird, also unethical, even if your job takes all your time, leaving no time for taking a shit, and you really really need to go badly, or you really really have a stomachache, it is still weird. It is saying, "I work here, so I am entitled to engage in activity for which I was not hired, has nothing whatsoever to do with the work yet I will be paid while I do it because I do it on company time, as well as, at the very least distracting, if not disturbing, harassing, and threatening coworkers with the smell and noises." That said, it is also a really bad idea if you care about the job, but I expect anyone who engages in that activity could not care less about the job. There is an idiom that applies here, "don't shit where you eat."

NoboruWataya 5y ago

I can be equally decisive in saying it is absolutely not weird. Until very recently it was pretty much one of the most normal things in the world. Various other commenters have posted sources that the workplace is (and has been for a long time) one of the most common places for couples to meet. Humans are social creatures, we always have and likely always will socialize at work, even if it's not in our job description.

Maursault 5y ago
Let's say everyone in the world thinks it's ok to steal. Let's say stealing became so prevalent, it was normal and common. Would this make stealing ethical? Weird is a poor descriptor. In the case of entitlement to take time on your employer's clock to engage in activity for which you were not hired to perform is simply and unabashedly unethical. It is stealing, no matter how many do it, it is still stealing. But there is another angle that also makes it unethical, and that is that your romantic focus at work is necessarily a captive of their workplace. It would be different under different circumstances, such as meeting someone at a social gathering and turning on the charm for romantic interest, because they're not going to lose their job nor create a toxic work environment should they rebuff your advances. When you target a romantic interest in the workplace, you are taking advantage of the others' inability to choose not to be romanced. Is it imperative to you that you be permitted indulge your entitlement to behave this way at work? Can't you do it instead somewhere, anywhere else?