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> Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit But it's neither decentralized nor a proof AT ALL. NFT literally can't facilitate anything by itself, with

by Yizahi 5y ago

> Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit But it's neither decentralized nor a proof AT ALL. NFT literally can't facilitate anything by itself, without adding some centralized DB to it and some centralized humans governing all interactions between clients.

orange8 5y ago
> NFT literally can't facilitate anything by itself, without adding some centralized DB to it What exactly do you want an NFT to facilitate? And are you raving mad at the people who make the NFTs, the people who buy them or both?
- Yizahi 5y ago
  Well at minimum at least something, at maximum - fully what cryptobros already promise today (so that their messages won't be lies) - proof of ownership, transfer of ownership, enforcement of ownership, decentralization, universal standards and so on. Nothing special, only the things crypto fans already say today to the gullible buyers.
  - xchaotic 5y ago
    Exactly. If you want to buy any NFT, you have to go to a centralised marketplace like opensea.io. On top of that you probably have to exchange fiat to ETH in a centralised exchange. If any of those two stop existing your NFTs become worthless, at least when denominated to fiat. And if you can't convert to fiat or buy real things, it's all imaginary.
    - detaro 5y ago
      > If you want to buy any NFT, you have to go to a centralised marketplace like opensea.io. With hicetnunc.xyz, there is already one example of a "marketplace" shutting down and being immediately replaced with alternative interfaces - which works because the underlying smart contract doesn't care what system people use to interact with it. The "blockchain is a distributed database" part does indeed work if a system is designed to use it.
  - orange8 5y ago
    > proof of ownership, Ask for a reciept. An NFT is not selling "proof of ownership", its selling you a product > transfer of ownership, The so called "gullible buyers" would not be buyers without this process occurring. An NFT is not selling "transfer of ownership", the transfer is the process itself. It consists of a seller (aka crypto fan), a buyer (aka gullible buyers) and a product (the NFT). The product is what is being being transferred, so how can what is being transferred also facilitate the transfer of ownership? > enforcement of ownership, Again, ask for a reciept. If someone robs you, sue them or call the police. That "enforcement of ownership" you seek is a separate product. > decentralization, How much more decentralized do you want a jpeg on the internet to be, really? > universal standards and so on What universal standards exactly?
    - Yizahi 5y ago
      > Ask for a reciept. An NFT is not selling "proof of ownership", its selling you a product No, it's not, unless you are calling an entry in DB with an URL inside "a product". NFT system is selling NFT only, and NFT itself is almost nothing and useless. > The so called "gullible buyers" would not be buyers without this process occurring. An NFT is not selling "transfer of ownership", the transfer is the process itself. It consists of a seller (aka crypto fan), a buyer (aka gullible buyers) and a product (the NFT). The product is what is being being transferred, so how can what is being transferred also facilitate the transfer of ownership? Ok, I see you really calling the NFT itself a product. This is amusing but I must tell you that you are either misled or malicious, because other cryptobros sell people not NFT but the stuff it links to - digital file usually. And they brainwash buyers that they (buyers) are really buying the digital file. >Again, ask for a reciept. If someone robs you, sue them or call the police. That "enforcement of ownership" you seek is a separate product. I won't write long here, but we can see here that NFT don't facilitate any kind of "proof of ownership" and even NFT fans agree with this - you need some centralized receipts and police according them too :) >How much more decentralized do you want a jpeg on the internet to be, really? Decentralized proof of ownership, which is impossible today. >What universal standards exactly? That was about new NFT fad I'm seeing - gaming NFTs, where bros expect that different competing corporations will for some reason implement a universal standard for items between different competing games and voluntarily implement and support it. Pure BS but that is one of the NFT promises today.

by Yizahi 5y ago

orange8 5y ago

> NFT literally can't facilitate anything by itself, without adding some centralized DB to it What exactly do you want an NFT to facilitate? And are you raving mad at the people who make the NFTs, the people who buy them or both?

Yizahi 5y ago
Well at minimum at least something, at maximum - fully what cryptobros already promise today (so that their messages won't be lies) - proof of ownership, transfer of ownership, enforcement of ownership, decentralization, universal standards and so on. Nothing special, only the things crypto fans already say today to the gullible buyers.
- xchaotic 5y ago
  Exactly. If you want to buy any NFT, you have to go to a centralised marketplace like opensea.io. On top of that you probably have to exchange fiat to ETH in a centralised exchange. If any of those two stop existing your NFTs become worthless, at least when denominated to fiat. And if you can't convert to fiat or buy real things, it's all imaginary.
  - detaro 5y ago
    > If you want to buy any NFT, you have to go to a centralised marketplace like opensea.io. With hicetnunc.xyz, there is already one example of a "marketplace" shutting down and being immediately replaced with alternative interfaces - which works because the underlying smart contract doesn't care what system people use to interact with it. The "blockchain is a distributed database" part does indeed work if a system is designed to use it.
- orange8 5y ago
  > proof of ownership, Ask for a reciept. An NFT is not selling "proof of ownership", its selling you a product > transfer of ownership, The so called "gullible buyers" would not be buyers without this process occurring. An NFT is not selling "transfer of ownership", the transfer is the process itself. It consists of a seller (aka crypto fan), a buyer (aka gullible buyers) and a product (the NFT). The product is what is being being transferred, so how can what is being transferred also facilitate the transfer of ownership? > enforcement of ownership, Again, ask for a reciept. If someone robs you, sue them or call the police. That "enforcement of ownership" you seek is a separate product. > decentralization, How much more decentralized do you want a jpeg on the internet to be, really? > universal standards and so on What universal standards exactly?
  - Yizahi 5y ago
    > Ask for a reciept. An NFT is not selling "proof of ownership", its selling you a product No, it's not, unless you are calling an entry in DB with an URL inside "a product". NFT system is selling NFT only, and NFT itself is almost nothing and useless. > The so called "gullible buyers" would not be buyers without this process occurring. An NFT is not selling "transfer of ownership", the transfer is the process itself. It consists of a seller (aka crypto fan), a buyer (aka gullible buyers) and a product (the NFT). The product is what is being being transferred, so how can what is being transferred also facilitate the transfer of ownership? Ok, I see you really calling the NFT itself a product. This is amusing but I must tell you that you are either misled or malicious, because other cryptobros sell people not NFT but the stuff it links to - digital file usually. And they brainwash buyers that they (buyers) are really buying the digital file. >Again, ask for a reciept. If someone robs you, sue them or call the police. That "enforcement of ownership" you seek is a separate product. I won't write long here, but we can see here that NFT don't facilitate any kind of "proof of ownership" and even NFT fans agree with this - you need some centralized receipts and police according them too :) >How much more decentralized do you want a jpeg on the internet to be, really? Decentralized proof of ownership, which is impossible today. >What universal standards exactly? That was about new NFT fad I'm seeing - gaming NFTs, where bros expect that different competing corporations will for some reason implement a universal standard for items between different competing games and voluntarily implement and support it. Pure BS but that is one of the NFT promises today.