4 ms·

I'll give my 2 cents as a male. Touching someone's butt or invading personal space without permission is wrong. I never dated a girl from work, but if I was i

by luis8 5y ago

I'll give my 2 cents as a male. Touching someone's butt or invading personal space without permission is wrong. I never dated a girl from work, but if I was interested in someone, I'll wait for the girl to initiate the encounter. Why? Now it seems that even trying to flirt could be interpreted as harassing. I wonder if it will end up like that eventually. Women will be the ones to pursue the encounter because males will be too afraid of crossing a line

InTheArena 5y ago
I would be very very cautious about any sort of relationship with anyone that you are working with. Any sort of denunciation makes the front page, and that can kill a career right quick. Go to a bar. Or a reading group. Or Tinder. Far less likely for something bad to happen.
- throwntoday 5y ago
  Conversely I would never enter a relationship with someone I met at a bar, or that uses Tinder. Work seems like a far better place to meet a partner, you get to know who they are without the haste of the other mediums you mentioned.
  - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
    I know a couple that met on LinkedIn. That contains most of the information you'd actually care about (vs. "I like pizza"). But crucially, she approached him.
    - throwntoday 5y ago
      I met my ex on a stock trading discord. Similarly she approached me. Online seems a better place to meet people, I just don't think tinder attracts the quality of people I'm interested in given the apps focus on hookups.
alphabettsy 5y ago
It’s a bad idea to date at work regardless. Hardly anything worse than a breakup with someone you sit next to at work. The problems with making advances in the workplace are that it’s really not the place for it and if you’re going to do it you better be certain it’s in an appropriate way and that they feel comfortable rejecting your advances. Since those are hard things to be certain about it’s probably better to avoid it entirely at work.
- Invictus0 5y ago
  Blah blah blah. The data shows that nearly 1 in 4 couples met at work.
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    Why are you being rude? I don’t see how that changes what I said. Taking some statistic about where people met doesn’t invalidate what I’ve said. Does it tell you if the 1/4 actually began by asking the other out during a meeting? I’ve dated someone at work, but our relationship started outside of work and we didn’t work in the same department.
    - rowanG077 5y ago
      It changes what you said because with your comment you are essentially invalidating one fourth of all relationships that exist. In a world where it's already hard enough to meet people.
      - alphabettsy 5y ago
        I don’t understand how it invalidates any relationship. It can be true that’s it not a great idea to ask someone out at work in many circumstances and that many people first meet their partner at work.
    - Invictus0 5y ago
      You've got the wool pulled over your eyes. "Work" is just a social construct. "Coworkers" is just a euphemism for "human beings". We have a thing called flirting that allows people to signal attraction without grabbing each other's tits and ass. Let people love each other and forget the hail-corporate "work romance is bad for business" propaganda.
202112142118 5y ago
You know the difference between harassment and flirt is the attractiveness of the initiator?
- cvhashim 5y ago
  Found the incel
  - dang 5y ago
    Posting like this will get you banned here. Please read the guidelines and stick to the rules. Note this one: "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
hnaccy 5y ago
>I wonder if it will end up like that eventually. Women will be the ones to pursue the encounter because males will be too afraid of crossing a line No there will always be men willing to tread the line; some will fail and other will succeed. Food for thought from Zizek: >A tension between rights and prohibitions determines heterosexual seduction in our politically correct times. Or, to put it differently, there is no seduction which cannot at some point be construed as intrusion or harassment because there will always be a point when one has to expose oneself and ‘make a pass’. But, of course, seduction doesn’t involve incorrect harassment throughout. When you make a pass, you expose yourself to the Other (the potential partner), and her reaction will determine whether what you just did was harassment or a successful act of seduction. There is no way to tell in advance what her response will be (which is why assertive women often despise ‘weak’ men, who fear to take the necessary risk). This holds even more in our pc times: the pc prohibitions are rules which, in one way or another, are to be violated in the seduction process. Isn’t the seducer’s art to accomplish the violation in such a way that, afterwards, by its acceptance, any suggestion of harassment has disappeared?
HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
Trying to flirt can certainly be interpreted as harassing in the wrong context. If someone has never so much as said anything to you that wasn't strictly work-related or banal small talk, flirting with them is not likely to go over well. In a different situation, where you and this person have been chatting, bantering about silly things, etc., they might be open to casual flirtation, since it's now not just coming out of left field... and you could still be wrong about how it will be received. Been there, done that, apologized immediately and we both moved on from it to stay friends. But that's the difference: realizing that you did something unwelcome and genuinely apologizing for it. Most reasonable people will be accepting of that behavior.
senectus1 5y ago
there is also a vast breadth of harassment types that are in between asking someone out and physically touching someone and its all sexual harassment. I've seen highly male environments redefine the bar of acceptable behavior on the fly before and its not pretty, the female targets have no way of getting it recognized let alone shutdown. its a culture problem. The team needs to have that culture drummed in from the beginning, its one reason why enforced quota's actually do help a large amount. when its not an unnaturally large number of males its a hell of a lot harder for the culture to "reset" its bar of acceptable behavior.
SavantIdiot 5y ago
> Now it seems that even trying to flirt could be interpreted as harassing. It always HAS been harassing. It is only after 40 years of victims' complaints being minimized, mocked, and dismissed is it finally starting to barely take hold that this is not OK. Flirting is literally sexualizing the work environment. Joking with someone is not sexualizing, but joking with them as an attempt to gain favor to date and subsequently fuck them is.

by luis8 5y ago

InTheArena 5y ago

I would be very very cautious about any sort of relationship with anyone that you are working with. Any sort of denunciation makes the front page, and that can kill a career right quick. Go to a bar. Or a reading group. Or Tinder. Far less likely for something bad to happen.

throwntoday 5y ago
Conversely I would never enter a relationship with someone I met at a bar, or that uses Tinder. Work seems like a far better place to meet a partner, you get to know who they are without the haste of the other mediums you mentioned.
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
  I know a couple that met on LinkedIn. That contains most of the information you'd actually care about (vs. "I like pizza"). But crucially, she approached him.
  - throwntoday 5y ago
    I met my ex on a stock trading discord. Similarly she approached me. Online seems a better place to meet people, I just don't think tinder attracts the quality of people I'm interested in given the apps focus on hookups.

alphabettsy 5y ago

It’s a bad idea to date at work regardless. Hardly anything worse than a breakup with someone you sit next to at work. The problems with making advances in the workplace are that it’s really not the place for it and if you’re going to do it you better be certain it’s in an appropriate way and that they feel comfortable rejecting your advances. Since those are hard things to be certain about it’s probably better to avoid it entirely at work.

Invictus0 5y ago
Blah blah blah. The data shows that nearly 1 in 4 couples met at work.
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  Why are you being rude? I don’t see how that changes what I said. Taking some statistic about where people met doesn’t invalidate what I’ve said. Does it tell you if the 1/4 actually began by asking the other out during a meeting? I’ve dated someone at work, but our relationship started outside of work and we didn’t work in the same department.
  - rowanG077 5y ago
    It changes what you said because with your comment you are essentially invalidating one fourth of all relationships that exist. In a world where it's already hard enough to meet people.
    - alphabettsy 5y ago
      I don’t understand how it invalidates any relationship. It can be true that’s it not a great idea to ask someone out at work in many circumstances and that many people first meet their partner at work.
  - Invictus0 5y ago
    You've got the wool pulled over your eyes. "Work" is just a social construct. "Coworkers" is just a euphemism for "human beings". We have a thing called flirting that allows people to signal attraction without grabbing each other's tits and ass. Let people love each other and forget the hail-corporate "work romance is bad for business" propaganda.

202112142118 5y ago

You know the difference between harassment and flirt is the attractiveness of the initiator?

cvhashim 5y ago
Found the incel
- dang 5y ago
  Posting like this will get you banned here. Please read the guidelines and stick to the rules. Note this one: "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

hnaccy 5y ago

>I wonder if it will end up like that eventually. Women will be the ones to pursue the encounter because males will be too afraid of crossing a line No there will always be men willing to tread the line; some will fail and other will succeed. Food for thought from Zizek: >A tension between rights and prohibitions determines heterosexual seduction in our politically correct times. Or, to put it differently, there is no seduction which cannot at some point be construed as intrusion or harassment because there will always be a point when one has to expose oneself and ‘make a pass’. But, of course, seduction doesn’t involve incorrect harassment throughout. When you make a pass, you expose yourself to the Other (the potential partner), and her reaction will determine whether what you just did was harassment or a successful act of seduction. There is no way to tell in advance what her response will be (which is why assertive women often despise ‘weak’ men, who fear to take the necessary risk). This holds even more in our pc times: the pc prohibitions are rules which, in one way or another, are to be violated in the seduction process. Isn’t the seducer’s art to accomplish the violation in such a way that, afterwards, by its acceptance, any suggestion of harassment has disappeared?

HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago

Trying to flirt can certainly be interpreted as harassing in the wrong context. If someone has never so much as said anything to you that wasn't strictly work-related or banal small talk, flirting with them is not likely to go over well. In a different situation, where you and this person have been chatting, bantering about silly things, etc., they might be open to casual flirtation, since it's now not just coming out of left field... and you could still be wrong about how it will be received. Been there, done that, apologized immediately and we both moved on from it to stay friends. But that's the difference: realizing that you did something unwelcome and genuinely apologizing for it. Most reasonable people will be accepting of that behavior.

senectus1 5y ago

there is also a vast breadth of harassment types that are in between asking someone out and physically touching someone and its all sexual harassment. I've seen highly male environments redefine the bar of acceptable behavior on the fly before and its not pretty, the female targets have no way of getting it recognized let alone shutdown. its a culture problem. The team needs to have that culture drummed in from the beginning, its one reason why enforced quota's actually do help a large amount. when its not an unnaturally large number of males its a hell of a lot harder for the culture to "reset" its bar of acceptable behavior.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

> Now it seems that even trying to flirt could be interpreted as harassing. It always HAS been harassing. It is only after 40 years of victims' complaints being minimized, mocked, and dismissed is it finally starting to barely take hold that this is not OK. Flirting is literally sexualizing the work environment. Joking with someone is not sexualizing, but joking with them as an attempt to gain favor to date and subsequently fuck them is.