4 ms·

" Some of the men who work at SpaceX hug women without consent, stare at women while they work, and interpret every company-related social event as an opportuni

by mam4 5y ago

" Some of the men who work at SpaceX hug women without consent, stare at women while they work, and interpret every company-related social event as an opportunity to date (or hit on) women in the office. I saw one woman pressured into dancing with a male colleague in front of other male employees. " I was with her for the butt grabbing incident but that part sounds absolutely insane. Either you have blatant sexism incidents, or you don't, and then you resort to spin random stuff into a drama. Of course in every "slightly less professional settings" there are annoying people with have annoying behavior such as being insisting to dance. But that's not "rampant misogyny" ffs. Add to that the whole environmental thing when you work at a rocket compagny, and sending a message directly to elon musk shows a level of entitlement that lightyears (pun intended) over the top for a random employee "While there are solar panels on campus, any attempts to make new buildings and infrastructure sustainable (LEED) are deprioritized in favor of expanding the factory as fast as possible." No kidding. Even if the compagny had positive cash flow you'd have to fight for it, but now you make a drama while the compagny is still running on investor's money. You're just not fit for a corporate environement...

Maursault 5y ago
> I was with her for the butt grabbing incident but that part sounds absolutely insane. Either you have blatant sexism incidents, or you don't, and then you resort to spin random stuff into a drama. Huh. To me it all sounds like sexual harassment, further details reinforcing the point, devoid of anything sounding so insane that I'd doubt everything else, but instead reasonable grievances reinforcing that it is a toxic environment for women. In fact, I'd be somewhat surprised if the details in the description were not accurate. And even if the last statement was "and the coffee was terrible, tasted like corn candy," it would not lead me to say, "aha! So this is all BS!" That would be a fallacious argument (A is reasonable, but B is nuts, so A&B are false.) I would not dismiss the accusations, they are too serious, nor would I ever sympathize with or try to frame sexual harassers as victims of slander.
- mam4 5y ago
  How many clues exactly so you need to conclude she's overacting to normal vaguely annoying behaviors in semi professional settings (except the butt grabbing) and globally playing the victim card ? She is offended to literally everythin fashionable these days on the offense scale (sexisme, racisme/colonialism and evironmentalism), and literally comparing Elon Musk to her father who sexually assaulted her in her full letter..
  - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
    I (a hetero male) have been sexually harassed by a woman in the workplace. What you call "normally vaguely annoying behaviors" I called "being stared at like I was a piece of meat." It's neither fun nor funny.
    - mam4 5y ago
      Im pretty sure its horrible (not kidding). Im also pretty sure it doesnt qualify your entire workplace as "rampant misandry" and im not 100% convinced (but i may be wrong if you actually tried to solve the problem in other ways) it requires the intervention of HR.
    - seoulmetro 5y ago
      Thankfully being looked at is not sexual assault.
- conradfr 5y ago
  After reading this article you are given the choice to work with this person, do you say yes or no?
  - Maursault 5y ago
    Yes, I'd take work at Apple and work with her. Why wouldn't I? Oh, right, because I'd be fearful of being accused of sexual harassment, right? I have no such fear because I haven't ever experienced those kinds of "misunderstandings," I am not a predator, and I am mature enough to control myself while at work. I'm also not needy, so I don't need to use the workplace to find romance. I respect my colleagues, even the ones I really don't care for, and I show them I respect them with my respectful behavior and by never objectifying them. Other people are ends in themselves, even the very attractive ones, not a means to my solving loneliness or getting off. If a colleague has a grievance, I listen to them and show them I understand rather than dismissing, avoiding, demeaning or attacking them.
    - mam4 5y ago
      You want a medal for being a non-predatory normal decent person ? That's not the point It's great for you you've lived your life without these kind of "misunderstanding" but fake or overblown (intentionally or not by the 'victim' btw) harassement accusations exist more than you seem to think and it's always coming from the same pattern of people. With time you learn to not ship on the 'victim' bandwagon too quickly and regognize the patterns. I'd have never thought i'd come to say something like that when I was younger..
      - Maursault 5y ago
        I suppose you believe it is easy to come forward once demeaned, that there is some temptation of some benefit or just to get attention at the expense of the reputation of decent, enlightened men being totally normal and merely cast in a false light. But I strongly suspect the exaggeration you interpret does not exist. It isn't possible to accidentally sexually harass. Sexual harassment is very common, false accusations of same is less so. Also common when someone does something wrong, denial, and then downplaying it's severity. And if you haven't noticed, women praise and defend enlightened men. So what you believe simply isn't credible.
me_me_me 5y ago
> " Some of the men who work at SpaceX hug women without consent, stare at women while they work, and interpret every company-related social event as an opportunity to date (or hit on) women in the office. I saw one woman pressured into dancing with a male colleague in front of other male employees. " Ummm if you keep on reading on, she is also describing someone feeling her out, also refusing to stop forcing touching despite being told to stop and keeping the relationship strictly professional. None of that is ok, and should be dealt with. That said she comes across idealistic and bit naive, HR is not to protect the (R)esources its there to protect the company's interest. Green initiatives and carbon neutral initiatives for a business that is struggling to stay afloat even with gov subsidiaries is not going to pay any attention to carbon neutrality beyond PR stunts.
seoulmetro 5y ago
Often these people will seek problems, but then use them for their advantage when they happen. It's the same with people who seek fights, often they'll seek a fight in order to end up on top (in their heads). Problem is, when you're seriously being mistreated and then you call wolf in the same sentence when there are no wolves, you definitely deserve further analysis. This girl has some problems. The person who grabbed her butt have problems too. But of all the text she managed to write here, it is nearly entirely her problem.

by mam4 5y ago

Maursault 5y ago

> I was with her for the butt grabbing incident but that part sounds absolutely insane. Either you have blatant sexism incidents, or you don't, and then you resort to spin random stuff into a drama. Huh. To me it all sounds like sexual harassment, further details reinforcing the point, devoid of anything sounding so insane that I'd doubt everything else, but instead reasonable grievances reinforcing that it is a toxic environment for women. In fact, I'd be somewhat surprised if the details in the description were not accurate. And even if the last statement was "and the coffee was terrible, tasted like corn candy," it would not lead me to say, "aha! So this is all BS!" That would be a fallacious argument (A is reasonable, but B is nuts, so A&B are false.) I would not dismiss the accusations, they are too serious, nor would I ever sympathize with or try to frame sexual harassers as victims of slander.

mam4 5y ago
How many clues exactly so you need to conclude she's overacting to normal vaguely annoying behaviors in semi professional settings (except the butt grabbing) and globally playing the victim card ? She is offended to literally everythin fashionable these days on the offense scale (sexisme, racisme/colonialism and evironmentalism), and literally comparing Elon Musk to her father who sexually assaulted her in her full letter..
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
  I (a hetero male) have been sexually harassed by a woman in the workplace. What you call "normally vaguely annoying behaviors" I called "being stared at like I was a piece of meat." It's neither fun nor funny.
  - mam4 5y ago
    Im pretty sure its horrible (not kidding). Im also pretty sure it doesnt qualify your entire workplace as "rampant misandry" and im not 100% convinced (but i may be wrong if you actually tried to solve the problem in other ways) it requires the intervention of HR.
  - seoulmetro 5y ago
    Thankfully being looked at is not sexual assault.
conradfr 5y ago
After reading this article you are given the choice to work with this person, do you say yes or no?
- Maursault 5y ago
  Yes, I'd take work at Apple and work with her. Why wouldn't I? Oh, right, because I'd be fearful of being accused of sexual harassment, right? I have no such fear because I haven't ever experienced those kinds of "misunderstandings," I am not a predator, and I am mature enough to control myself while at work. I'm also not needy, so I don't need to use the workplace to find romance. I respect my colleagues, even the ones I really don't care for, and I show them I respect them with my respectful behavior and by never objectifying them. Other people are ends in themselves, even the very attractive ones, not a means to my solving loneliness or getting off. If a colleague has a grievance, I listen to them and show them I understand rather than dismissing, avoiding, demeaning or attacking them.
  - mam4 5y ago
    You want a medal for being a non-predatory normal decent person ? That's not the point It's great for you you've lived your life without these kind of "misunderstanding" but fake or overblown (intentionally or not by the 'victim' btw) harassement accusations exist more than you seem to think and it's always coming from the same pattern of people. With time you learn to not ship on the 'victim' bandwagon too quickly and regognize the patterns. I'd have never thought i'd come to say something like that when I was younger..
    - Maursault 5y ago
      I suppose you believe it is easy to come forward once demeaned, that there is some temptation of some benefit or just to get attention at the expense of the reputation of decent, enlightened men being totally normal and merely cast in a false light. But I strongly suspect the exaggeration you interpret does not exist. It isn't possible to accidentally sexually harass. Sexual harassment is very common, false accusations of same is less so. Also common when someone does something wrong, denial, and then downplaying it's severity. And if you haven't noticed, women praise and defend enlightened men. So what you believe simply isn't credible.

me_me_me 5y ago

> " Some of the men who work at SpaceX hug women without consent, stare at women while they work, and interpret every company-related social event as an opportunity to date (or hit on) women in the office. I saw one woman pressured into dancing with a male colleague in front of other male employees. " Ummm if you keep on reading on, she is also describing someone feeling her out, also refusing to stop forcing touching despite being told to stop and keeping the relationship strictly professional. None of that is ok, and should be dealt with. That said she comes across idealistic and bit naive, HR is not to protect the (R)esources its there to protect the company's interest. Green initiatives and carbon neutral initiatives for a business that is struggling to stay afloat even with gov subsidiaries is not going to pay any attention to carbon neutrality beyond PR stunts.

seoulmetro 5y ago

Often these people will seek problems, but then use them for their advantage when they happen. It's the same with people who seek fights, often they'll seek a fight in order to end up on top (in their heads). Problem is, when you're seriously being mistreated and then you call wolf in the same sentence when there are no wolves, you definitely deserve further analysis. This girl has some problems. The person who grabbed her butt have problems too. But of all the text she managed to write here, it is nearly entirely her problem.