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> I'm flabberghasted at the amount of hate this space is getting from parts of the dev community and in particular HN. Web3 has its fair share of issues, but th

> I'm flabberghasted at the amount of hate this space is getting from parts of the dev community and in particular HN. Web3 has its fair share of issues, but there's community and energy in the space that I haven't seen online since the early days of the world wide web. If you're familiar with the space, you have to at least admit that it's filled to the brim with grifters and people looking to acquire life-changing wealth for themselves by hyping things that they have a vested financial interest in. There is a lot of energy in the space, but that's because it's just about the only thing web3 has going for it right now. The value of an asset has an exponential relationship with the hype around it, so everyone is working overtime to hype hype hype. Few people are interested in discussing what's underneath all of the hype, though, and instead allude to all of the vague future uses of the technology (which will allow everyone to flip their current investments for huge profits, or so the narrative goes).

papito 5y ago
In a way, this is a reflection of real life. Just as in politics and public space, we see the race to the bottom, to be the most horrible (and visible) human being possible, as part of performative assholery and grift.
fab1an 5y ago
Yeah, this kind of culture absolutely exists, but tbh I'd compare it to Reddit in that regard (hear me out): I don't particularly enjoy most of Reddit, and there are some vile subreddits I'd avoid at all costs, BUT there are many communities and subreddits that I immensely enjoy hanging out in. That said, my entire "consumption" of web2 communities like Reddit (AND HN!) has honestly been replaced with the amazing and kind communities I met "on" web3 (a misnomer in that context, as the entire comms stack is Twitter and Discord). Unsurprisingly, the quality of Web3 communities IMO is inversely correlated to how much price-talk they engage in (e. g. in token-gated Discord servers).
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > That said, my entire "consumption" of web2 communities like Reddit (AND HN!) has honestly been replaced with the amazing and kind communities I met "on" web3 (a misnomer in that context, as the entire comms stack is Twitter and Discord). So your "web3" consumption happens entirely on web 2.0? And its existence doesn't actually require anything web3 related? What makes it web3, other than the fact that maybe someone built a bot that requires NFT ownership to get into a Discord? Just the fact that people are talking about web3 in it?
  - fab1an 5y ago
    A bunch of things, which also define what web3 means to me: - Yes, NFTs: just like most websites are crap, so are most NFTs, and the tulip bubble that has formed around them will eventually bust (but return in different ways...). What will IMO almost certainly remain is the significant paradigm shift on two aspects: 1. indisputable ownership of digital goods that unlock other things: logins to apps, usage of software, access to certain communities / social clubs. 2. A dramatic unbundling of the way software is designed and used. Entire game universes will be build in the NFT space that are permissionlessly composable. A game designer may take an character NFT and build a game around them. Take a look at Loot Project, the first of this kind. Corruption(s*) by Dom is my favorite here: https://twitter.com/fabianstelzer/status/1470525607104684032 https://twitter.com/fabianstelzer/status/1470525607104684032 - DAOs will profoundly change the way in which we work. Wrote an article here: https://www.daos.fm/blog/daos-and-the-civstack https://www.daos.fm/blog/daos-and-the-civstack Most NFT communities eventually become minimal DAOs as they often at some point pool a bunch of NFTs into a community wallet that they govern together. Sometimes for lols, sometimes to fund public goods - Permissionlessness may sound like a buzzword, but it's huge. I think the NFT space will move toward a CC0 model in many parts, which means that anyone can build on top of existing things and expand on a successful model with an existing community. - Most importantly, community, and this isn't fluff: consider this - most on chain tech is by definition open source and easily forkable - it's on a public chain! The differentiating factor for a project then is solely how well the community works, and how well its community is rewarded for helping the project out. Take the ENS (Ethereum Naming Service), which let's you shorten your ETH public key to a "domain.eth" one. They incorporated as a DAO and as a token of gratitude to their early adopters airdropped ENS tokens into every early users wallet. These tokens were immediately worth around 15k USD and instantly tradeable. Many didn't trade them but instead used them to vote for a delegate to represent them in the ENS DAO. It's mindblowing how fast the space moves.
jjordan 5y ago
I've worked on and off in the crypto space for 4 years, and I've often said that crypto attracts some of the best and the absolute worst of humanity. The key, I think, is to realize that it's still very much a "wild west" industry, and there will be heartache to endure. We continue on because we believe in the unrealized potential of decentralization.
- xtracto 5y ago
  People are quick to forget the cesspool that 90s internet was with the spam, fraud and abuse that happened in that new technology during those times. Shit, I remember I received snail mail spam of penis enlargement crap in my town here in Mexico . They forget what brought the US legislators to the CAN SPAM act, and being 100% legal, also to the DMCA and all new legislation to prevent rampant copyright infringement (now... I dont agree with copyright law, but it's still the law). We are at the same stage in the crypto space. Theres really interesting new tech and ideas (the Yahoos, Amazons, Googles, CD-Nows, MySpaces of the 90s), and theres also plenty of shady and blatantly illegal stuff (the Napsters, emules, Edward Davidsons of the 90s') . That doesn't decrease the value of the technology.
orange8 5y ago
> people looking to acquire life-changing wealth for themselves by hyping things that they have a vested financial interest in What's wrong with hyping things you've invested in, or seeking life-changing wealth for yourself?
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  In a vacuum, nothing. But it's generally good to disclose to others when the investment advice you're offering will also materially benefit you. It's funny that cryptocurrency proponents will often lambast the traditional banking system for being corrupt and self-serving but then ask a question like this. Is cryptocurrency supposed to be a more fair way to invest/bank/move money or not?
  - orange8 5y ago
    > In a vacuum, nothing. But it's generally good to disclose to others when the investment advice you're offering will also materially benefit you. This should be obvious. When was the last time you saw a coca-cola add? Did it say "please buy this because we are vested in it" or did it say "coca-cola tastes great". > Is cryptocurrency supposed to be a more fair way to invest/bank/move money or not? I honestly don't think so. It's great for some use cases though, like cheap, instant cross border payments.
    - Aicy 5y ago
      There is obviously a difference between an ad which doesn't pretend to be anything else and financial "advice" which is pretending to be advice. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous. The thing that is wrong with it is that you are intentionally deceiving people.
      - orange8 5y ago
        So someone enticing you to BUY "sugar water" is not financial advice, but being enticed to buy fake internet money somehow is? How exactly did you reach that conclusion?

papito 5y ago

In a way, this is a reflection of real life. Just as in politics and public space, we see the race to the bottom, to be the most horrible (and visible) human being possible, as part of performative assholery and grift.

fab1an 5y ago

Yeah, this kind of culture absolutely exists, but tbh I'd compare it to Reddit in that regard (hear me out): I don't particularly enjoy most of Reddit, and there are some vile subreddits I'd avoid at all costs, BUT there are many communities and subreddits that I immensely enjoy hanging out in. That said, my entire "consumption" of web2 communities like Reddit (AND HN!) has honestly been replaced with the amazing and kind communities I met "on" web3 (a misnomer in that context, as the entire comms stack is Twitter and Discord). Unsurprisingly, the quality of Web3 communities IMO is inversely correlated to how much price-talk they engage in (e. g. in token-gated Discord servers).

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> That said, my entire "consumption" of web2 communities like Reddit (AND HN!) has honestly been replaced with the amazing and kind communities I met "on" web3 (a misnomer in that context, as the entire comms stack is Twitter and Discord). So your "web3" consumption happens entirely on web 2.0? And its existence doesn't actually require anything web3 related? What makes it web3, other than the fact that maybe someone built a bot that requires NFT ownership to get into a Discord? Just the fact that people are talking about web3 in it?
- fab1an 5y ago
  A bunch of things, which also define what web3 means to me: - Yes, NFTs: just like most websites are crap, so are most NFTs, and the tulip bubble that has formed around them will eventually bust (but return in different ways...). What will IMO almost certainly remain is the significant paradigm shift on two aspects: 1. indisputable ownership of digital goods that unlock other things: logins to apps, usage of software, access to certain communities / social clubs. 2. A dramatic unbundling of the way software is designed and used. Entire game universes will be build in the NFT space that are permissionlessly composable. A game designer may take an character NFT and build a game around them. Take a look at Loot Project, the first of this kind. Corruption(s*) by Dom is my favorite here: https://twitter.com/fabianstelzer/status/1470525607104684032 https://twitter.com/fabianstelzer/status/1470525607104684032 - DAOs will profoundly change the way in which we work. Wrote an article here: https://www.daos.fm/blog/daos-and-the-civstack https://www.daos.fm/blog/daos-and-the-civstack Most NFT communities eventually become minimal DAOs as they often at some point pool a bunch of NFTs into a community wallet that they govern together. Sometimes for lols, sometimes to fund public goods - Permissionlessness may sound like a buzzword, but it's huge. I think the NFT space will move toward a CC0 model in many parts, which means that anyone can build on top of existing things and expand on a successful model with an existing community. - Most importantly, community, and this isn't fluff: consider this - most on chain tech is by definition open source and easily forkable - it's on a public chain! The differentiating factor for a project then is solely how well the community works, and how well its community is rewarded for helping the project out. Take the ENS (Ethereum Naming Service), which let's you shorten your ETH public key to a "domain.eth" one. They incorporated as a DAO and as a token of gratitude to their early adopters airdropped ENS tokens into every early users wallet. These tokens were immediately worth around 15k USD and instantly tradeable. Many didn't trade them but instead used them to vote for a delegate to represent them in the ENS DAO. It's mindblowing how fast the space moves.

jjordan 5y ago

I've worked on and off in the crypto space for 4 years, and I've often said that crypto attracts some of the best and the absolute worst of humanity. The key, I think, is to realize that it's still very much a "wild west" industry, and there will be heartache to endure. We continue on because we believe in the unrealized potential of decentralization.

xtracto 5y ago
People are quick to forget the cesspool that 90s internet was with the spam, fraud and abuse that happened in that new technology during those times. Shit, I remember I received snail mail spam of penis enlargement crap in my town here in Mexico . They forget what brought the US legislators to the CAN SPAM act, and being 100% legal, also to the DMCA and all new legislation to prevent rampant copyright infringement (now... I dont agree with copyright law, but it's still the law). We are at the same stage in the crypto space. Theres really interesting new tech and ideas (the Yahoos, Amazons, Googles, CD-Nows, MySpaces of the 90s), and theres also plenty of shady and blatantly illegal stuff (the Napsters, emules, Edward Davidsons of the 90s') . That doesn't decrease the value of the technology.

orange8 5y ago

> people looking to acquire life-changing wealth for themselves by hyping things that they have a vested financial interest in What's wrong with hyping things you've invested in, or seeking life-changing wealth for yourself?

AlexandrB 5y ago
In a vacuum, nothing. But it's generally good to disclose to others when the investment advice you're offering will also materially benefit you. It's funny that cryptocurrency proponents will often lambast the traditional banking system for being corrupt and self-serving but then ask a question like this. Is cryptocurrency supposed to be a more fair way to invest/bank/move money or not?
- orange8 5y ago
  > In a vacuum, nothing. But it's generally good to disclose to others when the investment advice you're offering will also materially benefit you. This should be obvious. When was the last time you saw a coca-cola add? Did it say "please buy this because we are vested in it" or did it say "coca-cola tastes great". > Is cryptocurrency supposed to be a more fair way to invest/bank/move money or not? I honestly don't think so. It's great for some use cases though, like cheap, instant cross border payments.
  - Aicy 5y ago
    There is obviously a difference between an ad which doesn't pretend to be anything else and financial "advice" which is pretending to be advice. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous. The thing that is wrong with it is that you are intentionally deceiving people.
    - orange8 5y ago
      So someone enticing you to BUY "sugar water" is not financial advice, but being enticed to buy fake internet money somehow is? How exactly did you reach that conclusion?