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All of these things are adequately accounted for in my previous post except one which I find laughable every time I hear it, and provides sufficient evidence to

All of these things are adequately accounted for in my previous post except one which I find laughable every time I hear it, and provides sufficient evidence to me that you are an ideologue not concerned with realistic representations of history or current political events. >Israeli apartheid state Apartheid states do not let the oppressed class have massive representation in their representative government at all levels. They do not have members of the oppressed class sit on the bench of the highest court in the land. They do not mandate, at a federal level, that ALL state enterprise MUST have a member of the oppressed class on their board of directors. They do not consistently have individuals from the oppressed class as cabinet members. They do not have ambassadors belonging to the oppressed class. They do not have members of the oppressed class as some of the highest ranking generals in their military, or as commanders of, hilariously, the border police. Members of the oppressed class in apartheid states do not have the highest standard of living and quality of life compared to members of the same religious and ethnic groups in the region. Apartheid states do not bend over backwards to accommodate, preserve, and enable the cultural and religious practices of the oppressed class, even when its members openly call for the genocide of the predominant ethnic group in the locale, refuse to participate in coalition governments, and reinforce sectarian, segregationist cultural policies and beliefs. If you sincerely think Israel is an apartheid state, you are woefully uninformed, and a fool that has fallen for blatant propaganda.

tsimionescu 5y ago
The oppressed minority are not Arab citizens of Israel, they are the citizens of the Palestinian territories, whose property (and sometimes even lives) are considered expandable by Israeli authorities, who routinely destroy or seize these. Israel is very obviously leading a campaign to eradicate the Palestinian population and take their land without taking the people. They are violating all two-state solution guarantees through their obviously illegal settlements. And they do not want to simply occupy the Palestinian territories and go for a single-state solution, because that would leave Palestinian Arabs a majority (or at least extremely large minority) of the population, which contradicts the dream of an Isareli state controlled by God's chosen people. All of your examples of how the minority Arab citizenry of Israel is treated well are entriely irrelevant, and if you know anything about the history of calling Israel an apartheid state, by people like Noam Chomsky, you would definitely know this, so I can only assume you are arguing in bad faith.
- defaultprimate 5y ago
  Palestinian Arabs are exactly who I'm describing in the previous examples. They are free to become Israeli citizens at any time and those are the positions they end up in when they do. Palestine has rejected every two state solution proposed for the last half century. You're regurgitating ignorant nonsense. The ruling parties and majority population of Palestine are VOCALLY genocidal when it comes to the Jews, but you'd rather ignore that and accuse Israel of subversively carrying out a genocide against people it has in its highest levels of government. Then you have the audacity to accuse ME of bad faith. How many Jews are in Palestinian leadership positions? I couldn't care less what Noam Chomsky says or thinks on this subject, he's one of the worst ultracrepidarian clowns in contemporary history.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    And yet, despite this enlightened love of Israel for its Palestinian citizens, Israel is one of the developed nations of the world, while Palestine (the Gaza Strip and West Bank) live in squalor, are blockaded with not even the Red Cross being allowed to freely bring medicine in, and have to endure planned bombardments from Israel whenever a terrorist attack happens, all while their land is taken away by colonists flying the Israeli flag. How exactly do you square this circle? > Palestine has rejected every two state solution proposed for the last half century. This is twisting history. UN resolutions for a two-state solution have always been approved by Palestine, with the USA being the veto against them. The idea of recognizing the state of Israel has been accepted by Palestinian leadership since the 1970s. But, the specific proposals that have usually been on the table have been almost universally laughable: taking away even more of Palestinian territory, limited access to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, limited access between the two halves of the Palestinian state and many other issues. Not to mention, almost all of these negotiations were "arbitrated" by Israel's single biggest ally in the world, the USA. This would be as if you'd expect peace talks between Ukraine and the Donetsk separatists arbitrated by Russia to go well. > They are free to become Israeli citizens at any time and those are the positions they end up in when they do. And looking a little bit into this, it's amazing you can claim this, as the truth is precisely the opposite. 90% of the Arabic population of Palestine before the war did not qualify to become Israeli citizens. Now, not only do they not have any special right to become Israeli citizens, they don't even have the right to enter the country, even if they have a spouse or property there, unless they meet some other conditions. By contrast, any person of Jewish decent or that converts to Judaism has the right to become a citizen of Israel with minimal other conditions. They will also likely receive property from the JNF if they wish to settle in Israel.

tsimionescu 5y ago

The oppressed minority are not Arab citizens of Israel, they are the citizens of the Palestinian territories, whose property (and sometimes even lives) are considered expandable by Israeli authorities, who routinely destroy or seize these. Israel is very obviously leading a campaign to eradicate the Palestinian population and take their land without taking the people. They are violating all two-state solution guarantees through their obviously illegal settlements. And they do not want to simply occupy the Palestinian territories and go for a single-state solution, because that would leave Palestinian Arabs a majority (or at least extremely large minority) of the population, which contradicts the dream of an Isareli state controlled by God's chosen people. All of your examples of how the minority Arab citizenry of Israel is treated well are entriely irrelevant, and if you know anything about the history of calling Israel an apartheid state, by people like Noam Chomsky, you would definitely know this, so I can only assume you are arguing in bad faith.

defaultprimate 5y ago
Palestinian Arabs are exactly who I'm describing in the previous examples. They are free to become Israeli citizens at any time and those are the positions they end up in when they do. Palestine has rejected every two state solution proposed for the last half century. You're regurgitating ignorant nonsense. The ruling parties and majority population of Palestine are VOCALLY genocidal when it comes to the Jews, but you'd rather ignore that and accuse Israel of subversively carrying out a genocide against people it has in its highest levels of government. Then you have the audacity to accuse ME of bad faith. How many Jews are in Palestinian leadership positions? I couldn't care less what Noam Chomsky says or thinks on this subject, he's one of the worst ultracrepidarian clowns in contemporary history.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  And yet, despite this enlightened love of Israel for its Palestinian citizens, Israel is one of the developed nations of the world, while Palestine (the Gaza Strip and West Bank) live in squalor, are blockaded with not even the Red Cross being allowed to freely bring medicine in, and have to endure planned bombardments from Israel whenever a terrorist attack happens, all while their land is taken away by colonists flying the Israeli flag. How exactly do you square this circle? > Palestine has rejected every two state solution proposed for the last half century. This is twisting history. UN resolutions for a two-state solution have always been approved by Palestine, with the USA being the veto against them. The idea of recognizing the state of Israel has been accepted by Palestinian leadership since the 1970s. But, the specific proposals that have usually been on the table have been almost universally laughable: taking away even more of Palestinian territory, limited access to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, limited access between the two halves of the Palestinian state and many other issues. Not to mention, almost all of these negotiations were "arbitrated" by Israel's single biggest ally in the world, the USA. This would be as if you'd expect peace talks between Ukraine and the Donetsk separatists arbitrated by Russia to go well. > They are free to become Israeli citizens at any time and those are the positions they end up in when they do. And looking a little bit into this, it's amazing you can claim this, as the truth is precisely the opposite. 90% of the Arabic population of Palestine before the war did not qualify to become Israeli citizens. Now, not only do they not have any special right to become Israeli citizens, they don't even have the right to enter the country, even if they have a spouse or property there, unless they meet some other conditions. By contrast, any person of Jewish decent or that converts to Judaism has the right to become a citizen of Israel with minimal other conditions. They will also likely receive property from the JNF if they wish to settle in Israel.