5 ms·

What’s wrong with OSX on M1? It works great for all CLI stuff.

by GhettoComputers 5y ago

josteink 5y ago
> What’s wrong with OSX on M1? It’s not open-source and it’s not Linux.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Their kernel at least is and it’s Unix. From a user standpoint I don’t have any issues with it, it’s like if Linux could run photoshop natively and had good paid software and you can’t change the UI. It’s not ideal but it works for me.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > Their kernel at least is It does not solve main problems of the proprietary software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor....
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      I don't see the problem, I want to run better software I have to pay for, not crappy free stuff, and giving choice to do that is not a negative. If linux did not allow any paid software, it would not make it a better OS.
      - fsflover 5y ago
        > better software I have to pay for, not crappy free stuff Free software is not about price, it's about freedom. It can (and should!) be paid for.
        GhettoComputers 5y ago
        I have tried to replace photoshop with free software forever, and nothing still comes close to CS2. I don't care to make my life harder or use crappier tools because its not free. There is nothing free about crippling a workflow.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - alerighi 5y ago
    But the rest of the system is not. I want I computer that I can use in the way that I want, with the software that I want, and not a computer that must be used as Apple wants, and limits you in using an hardware that you bought. The reason why I use Linux is that I can do whatever I want on my computer, I don't have to have signed applications, annoying prompts to tell me that the software is not Apple approved (till there are the prompts and Apple doesn't decide to forbid all unsigned software as on iOS), and similar. Also from an hardware standpoint Mac are overpriced machines, with insufficient I/O that forces you to bring a bag of adapters with yourself and components that are all soldered on the motherboard, impossible to upgrade.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      > But the rest of the system is not. I want I computer that I can use in the way that I want, with the software that I want, and not a computer that must be used as Apple wants, and limits you in using an hardware that you bought. You can't run a lot of software on linux, you can run less of it compared to windows and osx. All hardware is limited, all the x86 laptops have soldered CPUs, there is no such thing as unlimited hardware. >Also from an hardware standpoint Mac are overpriced machines, with insufficient I/O that forces you to bring a bag of adapters with yourself and components that are all soldered on the motherboard, impossible to upgrade. M1 is not overpriced for its benefits, the x86 stuff I agree with though and fuck their keyboards. No more Jony Ive, so ports are back! >The reason why I use Linux is that I can do whatever I want on my computer, I don't have to have signed applications, annoying prompts to tell me that the software is not Apple approved (till there are the prompts and Apple doesn't decide to forbid all unsigned software as on iOS), and similar. The problem I have with this is that its not that you can do whatever, you MUST do it and use a lot of time in configuration. I find the root prompt just as annoying in linux. I just want a working environment, not a bunch of software that asks me to set every preference.
leetrout 5y ago
No snark: I love OSX but as I get older I would like to support free as in beer and free as in speech computing devices. I think there could be some real hope for Linux on a laptop, especially the M1, and being able to use all the Linux tools directly (looking at you, containers).
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  I mean from a user standpoint I don’t have any issues, I would use the M1 until Linux on there gtt set s stuff like GPU acceleration, at least OS X is free beer and the kernel is FOSS even though it’s BSD.
- canadaduane 5y ago
  I've been feeling this, too. I made the switch to Linux from Mac this year, and I'm committed to improving the Linux experience where I can. "A rising tide lifts all boats". And we can live our values, too.
smoldesu 5y ago
Well, except Docker. And all of your apps that are still x86 (and ARM support is WONTFIX), and then there's the 32-bit applications and the 32-bit libraries, and the plate-spinning clusterfsck that we call Homebrew, and your coreutils have to be manually upgraded or replaced altogether, and then you're probably going to want to find a replacement for Terminal.app, and while you're at it you may as well install a better window manager like Amethyst or Yabai. What's that? I can't disable the normal desktop interface and need to make do with 4gb of memory bloat at all times? That's alright I guess, I'll just disable system integrity protection and try to remo- hold on, you're telling me that there's a new update coming through? And none of my software is ready yet? That's unfortunate, it's already rebooting... and now we're in a boot loop. Siri, when was my last Time Machine backup? Siri? You there? It may be hard to believe, but sometimes, for some people, just installing Linux is what they need.
sce 5y ago
It reminds of a coworker, a frontend developer and Linux user. He asked for a macbook pro from his employer, and after using it for a year he switched back to Linux. He said it was because he missed using it. I use Linux primarily because of ideology, but luckily it's also the best OS out there, for me at least and many others. For others Mac OS or Windows will be better for them, and that's fine.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  I use both, I don't LOVE OSX, and find it annoying, but its just as bad as gnome to me.
howinteresting 5y ago
The BSD coreutils are inferior to the GNU ones, and using the GNU coreutils on Macs is a hassle.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Disagree! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29456115#29456758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29456115#29456758
  - howinteresting 5y ago
    I like the uutils idea but they have a very long way to go. The GNU coreutils are still the very best you can get.
    - trasz 5y ago
      GNU coreutils are an exercise in software bloat.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      Can you quantify that? How is it the best or better than the rust ones?
      - howinteresting 5y ago
        No, of course I can't quantify that. Not everything in life is quantifiable. But I can tell you from over 15 years of experience writing shell scripts across Linux and MacOS that the GNU coreutils are superior. Little things like 'find -name' without '.' working, to bigger ones like 'sed -i' and 'readlink -f'. I love Rust but uutils are really not mature enough, which is understandable given how new they are -- the linked thread has examples of where they fall short. I would be delighted to start using them once they become drop-in replacements for GNU coreutils (so existing shell scripts don't break). Meanwhile, I use fd and bat in interactive shells (but can't use them in shell scripts distributed to others obviously).
xtracto 5y ago
I use both OSX and Linux extensively. I had the choice to go either way for my work computer and I chose OSX (intel chip). A couple of days ago I wanted to use a Ruby gem ( https://github.com/rubyjs/therubyracer https://github.com/rubyjs/therubyracer ) for some random project. To install the library (compile native bindings), OSX wanted me to download an install 12 GB of crap (full XCode, it didn't work with the command line tools)... In linux it was just a matter of downloading and installing the gem (100MB at most). That's crazy. What I dislike more and more about OSX is how they have been aggresive against developers and technical people in the last years (like, why do I have to jump through hoops to modify my /usr/lib folder with SUDO/root? I AM ROOT ASSHOLE OS, LET ME DO WHATEVER I WANT TO MY COMPUTER. But other than that, it's OK.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Have you tried the Nix package? Not sure if homebrew has the same issue.
- visarga 5y ago
  Use MacBook to ssh into your real Linux box or VM. It's a beautiful terminal for Linux.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    If you have the butterfly keyboard no it doesn't!

What’s wrong with OSX on M1? It works great for all CLI stuff.

josteink 5y ago

> What’s wrong with OSX on M1? It’s not open-source and it’s not Linux.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Their kernel at least is and it’s Unix. From a user standpoint I don’t have any issues with it, it’s like if Linux could run photoshop natively and had good paid software and you can’t change the UI. It’s not ideal but it works for me.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > Their kernel at least is It does not solve main problems of the proprietary software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor....
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    I don't see the problem, I want to run better software I have to pay for, not crappy free stuff, and giving choice to do that is not a negative. If linux did not allow any paid software, it would not make it a better OS.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > better software I have to pay for, not crappy free stuff Free software is not about price, it's about freedom. It can (and should!) be paid for.
      - GhettoComputers 5y ago
        I have tried to replace photoshop with free software forever, and nothing still comes close to CS2. I don't care to make my life harder or use crappier tools because its not free. There is nothing free about crippling a workflow.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- alerighi 5y ago
  But the rest of the system is not. I want I computer that I can use in the way that I want, with the software that I want, and not a computer that must be used as Apple wants, and limits you in using an hardware that you bought. The reason why I use Linux is that I can do whatever I want on my computer, I don't have to have signed applications, annoying prompts to tell me that the software is not Apple approved (till there are the prompts and Apple doesn't decide to forbid all unsigned software as on iOS), and similar. Also from an hardware standpoint Mac are overpriced machines, with insufficient I/O that forces you to bring a bag of adapters with yourself and components that are all soldered on the motherboard, impossible to upgrade.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    > But the rest of the system is not. I want I computer that I can use in the way that I want, with the software that I want, and not a computer that must be used as Apple wants, and limits you in using an hardware that you bought. You can't run a lot of software on linux, you can run less of it compared to windows and osx. All hardware is limited, all the x86 laptops have soldered CPUs, there is no such thing as unlimited hardware. >Also from an hardware standpoint Mac are overpriced machines, with insufficient I/O that forces you to bring a bag of adapters with yourself and components that are all soldered on the motherboard, impossible to upgrade. M1 is not overpriced for its benefits, the x86 stuff I agree with though and fuck their keyboards. No more Jony Ive, so ports are back! >The reason why I use Linux is that I can do whatever I want on my computer, I don't have to have signed applications, annoying prompts to tell me that the software is not Apple approved (till there are the prompts and Apple doesn't decide to forbid all unsigned software as on iOS), and similar. The problem I have with this is that its not that you can do whatever, you MUST do it and use a lot of time in configuration. I find the root prompt just as annoying in linux. I just want a working environment, not a bunch of software that asks me to set every preference.

leetrout 5y ago

No snark: I love OSX but as I get older I would like to support free as in beer and free as in speech computing devices. I think there could be some real hope for Linux on a laptop, especially the M1, and being able to use all the Linux tools directly (looking at you, containers).

GhettoComputers 5y ago
I mean from a user standpoint I don’t have any issues, I would use the M1 until Linux on there gtt set s stuff like GPU acceleration, at least OS X is free beer and the kernel is FOSS even though it’s BSD.
canadaduane 5y ago
I've been feeling this, too. I made the switch to Linux from Mac this year, and I'm committed to improving the Linux experience where I can. "A rising tide lifts all boats". And we can live our values, too.

smoldesu 5y ago

Well, except Docker. And all of your apps that are still x86 (and ARM support is WONTFIX), and then there's the 32-bit applications and the 32-bit libraries, and the plate-spinning clusterfsck that we call Homebrew, and your coreutils have to be manually upgraded or replaced altogether, and then you're probably going to want to find a replacement for Terminal.app, and while you're at it you may as well install a better window manager like Amethyst or Yabai. What's that? I can't disable the normal desktop interface and need to make do with 4gb of memory bloat at all times? That's alright I guess, I'll just disable system integrity protection and try to remo- hold on, you're telling me that there's a new update coming through? And none of my software is ready yet? That's unfortunate, it's already rebooting... and now we're in a boot loop. Siri, when was my last Time Machine backup? Siri? You there? It may be hard to believe, but sometimes, for some people, just installing Linux is what they need.

sce 5y ago

It reminds of a coworker, a frontend developer and Linux user. He asked for a macbook pro from his employer, and after using it for a year he switched back to Linux. He said it was because he missed using it. I use Linux primarily because of ideology, but luckily it's also the best OS out there, for me at least and many others. For others Mac OS or Windows will be better for them, and that's fine.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
I use both, I don't LOVE OSX, and find it annoying, but its just as bad as gnome to me.

howinteresting 5y ago

The BSD coreutils are inferior to the GNU ones, and using the GNU coreutils on Macs is a hassle.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Disagree! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29456115#29456758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29456115#29456758
- howinteresting 5y ago
  I like the uutils idea but they have a very long way to go. The GNU coreutils are still the very best you can get.
  - trasz 5y ago
    GNU coreutils are an exercise in software bloat.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Can you quantify that? How is it the best or better than the rust ones?
    - howinteresting 5y ago
      No, of course I can't quantify that. Not everything in life is quantifiable. But I can tell you from over 15 years of experience writing shell scripts across Linux and MacOS that the GNU coreutils are superior. Little things like 'find -name' without '.' working, to bigger ones like 'sed -i' and 'readlink -f'. I love Rust but uutils are really not mature enough, which is understandable given how new they are -- the linked thread has examples of where they fall short. I would be delighted to start using them once they become drop-in replacements for GNU coreutils (so existing shell scripts don't break). Meanwhile, I use fd and bat in interactive shells (but can't use them in shell scripts distributed to others obviously).

xtracto 5y ago

I use both OSX and Linux extensively. I had the choice to go either way for my work computer and I chose OSX (intel chip). A couple of days ago I wanted to use a Ruby gem ( https://github.com/rubyjs/therubyracer https://github.com/rubyjs/therubyracer ) for some random project. To install the library (compile native bindings), OSX wanted me to download an install 12 GB of crap (full XCode, it didn't work with the command line tools)... In linux it was just a matter of downloading and installing the gem (100MB at most). That's crazy. What I dislike more and more about OSX is how they have been aggresive against developers and technical people in the last years (like, why do I have to jump through hoops to modify my /usr/lib folder with SUDO/root? I AM ROOT ASSHOLE OS, LET ME DO WHATEVER I WANT TO MY COMPUTER. But other than that, it's OK.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Have you tried the Nix package? Not sure if homebrew has the same issue.
visarga 5y ago
Use MacBook to ssh into your real Linux box or VM. It's a beautiful terminal for Linux.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  If you have the butterfly keyboard no it doesn't!