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Those numbers don’t seem to adjust for population size, wonder what the numbers are per capita. Here in NL cargo bikes are extremely common for transporting kid

Those numbers don’t seem to adjust for population size, wonder what the numbers are per capita. Here in NL cargo bikes are extremely common for transporting kids.

mrweasel 5y ago
Seems correct, so they became a hub by having 80 million citizens. Denmark have a population 14 times small, but the sales number for cargo bikes are only 4 times smaller and no subsidising.
- Kon-Peki 5y ago
  The point of a subsidy is to encourage behavior that wouldn't otherwise happen. If the subsidy is used up within 30 minutes, then no behavior was changed. Demand was pulled forward by a few weeks or a few months, which is not a good use of public money.
  - masklinn 5y ago
    > If the subsidy is used up within 30 minutes, then no behavior was changed. Demand was pulled forward by a few weeks or a few months, which is not a good use of public money. That is not true. Even if it only pulled demand forward by weeks, it would create a strong signal of desirability, which enables surrounding projects (e.g. infrastructure) by unambiguously demonstrating interest. Furthermore subsidy can be the difference between ability and inability, it won't do anything if there's no interest, but it can very much jumpstart or create a market where there previously was not one because the investment was too steep.
    - Kon-Peki 5y ago
      I think it is clear that desirability was already there. What they did was create a reward for jumping to the front of a line that you were already in. As everyone knows, the people most able to do this kind of thing are the people with the least concern over time and money. I can go into work and put an appointment on my calendar that says I am busy. Nobody cares. I could even walk out of the office and say "I've got to go take care of something; be back in an hour". WFH makes all that even easier. If you work at a restaurant, drive a truck, etc? Not a chance. You have no flexibility at all.
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    Well yeah, but why focus on Germany and not Denmark or the Netherlands. Both have more cargo bikes than Germany per person? It’s more interesting how this happened with the goverment throwing money at it. Perhaps there’s something Germany could have done to get even better result, without a subsidy.
user568439 5y ago
Netherlands and Denmark have many more per capita and also much better infrastructure for cycling. I was in Germany this weekend and in some cities is quite a risk to ride a bike since there are definitely not enough bike lanes
ahartmetz 5y ago
Uhm yes, I (German) thought "How is it not the Netherlands?".
- simongray 5y ago
  Going by the numbers presented in this article, it's actually Denmark. And our bike culture is mostly a feature of Copenhagen, so really Copenhagen is the global hub. Cargo bikes were always quite popular in Copenhagen. The dominant brand for several decades was produced in Christiania (a hippie/anarchist commune), so just a few years ago they were all still known as "Christiania bikes" in Denmark. I think the more recent addition of electric assists made them explode in popularity and other brands became more popular.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Christiania is a quality product, one of the very few early aluminum cargo bikes, much easier to handle for a smaller person than the steel ones.
- masklinn 5y ago
  The dutch don't seem to be very into cargo bikes. They certainly do exist (bakfiets are pretty famous, and the reference), but the vast, vast majority of the parc seems to be more of the granny bike variety, possibly with panniers and child seats, rather than dedicated cargo. E.g. in BicycleDutch's station area video, while it was not 4 uninterrupted minutes of bike traffic around utrecht's station I only noticed 3 cargo bikes.
  - wyclif 5y ago
    They'll take my opafiets when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    > The dutch don't seem to be very into cargo bikes. Go visit any gradeschool in the morning between 8 and 8:30. You'll see traffic jams of cargo bikes. We have >> 10 different independent cargo bike manufacturers. https://cargobikefestival.com/news/dutch-manufacturers-of-cargo-bikes/ https://cargobikefestival.com/news/dutch-manufacturers-of-ca...
jacquesm 5y ago
Exactly. Once you adjust for population size Germany is a (distant) third in Europe.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> cargo bikes are extremely common for transporting kids Seems like a contradiction in terms?

Those numbers don’t seem to adjust for population size, wonder what the numbers are per capita. Here in NL cargo bikes are extremely common for transporting kids.

mrweasel 5y ago

Seems correct, so they became a hub by having 80 million citizens. Denmark have a population 14 times small, but the sales number for cargo bikes are only 4 times smaller and no subsidising.

Kon-Peki 5y ago
The point of a subsidy is to encourage behavior that wouldn't otherwise happen. If the subsidy is used up within 30 minutes, then no behavior was changed. Demand was pulled forward by a few weeks or a few months, which is not a good use of public money.
- masklinn 5y ago
  > If the subsidy is used up within 30 minutes, then no behavior was changed. Demand was pulled forward by a few weeks or a few months, which is not a good use of public money. That is not true. Even if it only pulled demand forward by weeks, it would create a strong signal of desirability, which enables surrounding projects (e.g. infrastructure) by unambiguously demonstrating interest. Furthermore subsidy can be the difference between ability and inability, it won't do anything if there's no interest, but it can very much jumpstart or create a market where there previously was not one because the investment was too steep.
  - Kon-Peki 5y ago
    I think it is clear that desirability was already there. What they did was create a reward for jumping to the front of a line that you were already in. As everyone knows, the people most able to do this kind of thing are the people with the least concern over time and money. I can go into work and put an appointment on my calendar that says I am busy. Nobody cares. I could even walk out of the office and say "I've got to go take care of something; be back in an hour". WFH makes all that even easier. If you work at a restaurant, drive a truck, etc? Not a chance. You have no flexibility at all.
- mrweasel 5y ago
  Well yeah, but why focus on Germany and not Denmark or the Netherlands. Both have more cargo bikes than Germany per person? It’s more interesting how this happened with the goverment throwing money at it. Perhaps there’s something Germany could have done to get even better result, without a subsidy.

user568439 5y ago

Netherlands and Denmark have many more per capita and also much better infrastructure for cycling. I was in Germany this weekend and in some cities is quite a risk to ride a bike since there are definitely not enough bike lanes

ahartmetz 5y ago

Uhm yes, I (German) thought "How is it not the Netherlands?".

simongray 5y ago
Going by the numbers presented in this article, it's actually Denmark. And our bike culture is mostly a feature of Copenhagen, so really Copenhagen is the global hub. Cargo bikes were always quite popular in Copenhagen. The dominant brand for several decades was produced in Christiania (a hippie/anarchist commune), so just a few years ago they were all still known as "Christiania bikes" in Denmark. I think the more recent addition of electric assists made them explode in popularity and other brands became more popular.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Christiania is a quality product, one of the very few early aluminum cargo bikes, much easier to handle for a smaller person than the steel ones.
masklinn 5y ago
The dutch don't seem to be very into cargo bikes. They certainly do exist (bakfiets are pretty famous, and the reference), but the vast, vast majority of the parc seems to be more of the granny bike variety, possibly with panniers and child seats, rather than dedicated cargo. E.g. in BicycleDutch's station area video, while it was not 4 uninterrupted minutes of bike traffic around utrecht's station I only noticed 3 cargo bikes.
- wyclif 5y ago
  They'll take my opafiets when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > The dutch don't seem to be very into cargo bikes. Go visit any gradeschool in the morning between 8 and 8:30. You'll see traffic jams of cargo bikes. We have >> 10 different independent cargo bike manufacturers. https://cargobikefestival.com/news/dutch-manufacturers-of-cargo-bikes/ https://cargobikefestival.com/news/dutch-manufacturers-of-ca...

jacquesm 5y ago

Exactly. Once you adjust for population size Germany is a (distant) third in Europe.

chrisseaton 5y ago

> cargo bikes are extremely common for transporting kids Seems like a contradiction in terms?