3 ms·

> According to who? The Chinese govt? All of the sterilization / birth control claims are sourced to Chinese government data. That's the best data available.

by szhsh 5y ago

> According to who? The Chinese govt? All of the sterilization / birth control claims are sourced to Chinese government data. That's the best data available. Given the large economic investment in Xinjiang (which is part of China's attempt to decrease dissent) and the very visible improvements in living standards there, it makes sense that life expectancy is increasing. > There is no basis for your claim that the forced sterilization/abortions of the Uyghur people occurs at similar rates within the Chinese majority Up until a few years ago, forced sterilization / abortion was something that basically only the Han majority was subject to. The Uyghurs were exempted from the 1-child policy, just like most ethnic minorities. Over the last few years, China has loosened the policy, so families can now have 3 children, but it has started applying it to ethnic minorities as well. > There is no basis for your claim [...] that it is merely an enforcement of the three child policy. No basis? There's no basis for believing otherwise. If you pay attention to the reporting, the horror stories are mostly about people who have had more children than the policy allows. You can very legitimately oppose China's 3-child policy, but calling it "genocide" is obvious hyperbole. "Genocide" is an extremely serious accusation. It means an attempt to physically annihilate a people. It evokes images of death camps and crematoria. Yet you're now arguing about whether or not the Uyghurs might be subject to harsher enforcement of the 3-child policy or not. That's not genocide. The word should not become a cheap rhetorical tool.

ryeights 5y ago
At this point it is clear you are merely regurgitating CCP propaganda. All of your claims map 1:1 to those made solely by the Chinese government, and have been refuted in outside reporting. “Documents from 2019 reveal plans for a campaign of mass female sterilization … Xinjiang planned to subject at least 80 percent of women of childbearing age in the rural southern four minority prefectures to intrusive birth prevention surgeries (IUDs or sterilizations), with actual shares likely being much higher.” https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-birthrate-sterilization-genocide https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/22311356/chi... I will not be responding further.
- szhsh 5y ago
  I'm making what are pretty obvious, factual claims. I don't think that any of the factual statements I'm making are even controversial. It's just the interpretation that has suddenly dramatically shifted in the US and some of its allied countries. The UN Genocide Convention is very clear about what is and is not genocide. There's no possible way to construe a situation like this, in which the population and life expectancy of the group is increasing, as genocide. In fact, describing it as genocide sounds like propaganda. If the Chinese government were trying to physically annihilate the Uyghurs, which is what the very serious word "genocide" means, it would be obvious. We would not be discussing whether or not the 3-child limit was being more aggressively enforced on Uyghurs. We would be discussing mass death. I don't need the CCP to tell me that "genocide" implies mass killing and physical annihilation of a people. I'm perfectly capable of seeing that the word "genocide" is being misused in a highly manipulative way in the political discussion nowadays, and of pushing back against that.

by szhsh 5y ago

ryeights 5y ago

At this point it is clear you are merely regurgitating CCP propaganda. All of your claims map 1:1 to those made solely by the Chinese government, and have been refuted in outside reporting. “Documents from 2019 reveal plans for a campaign of mass female sterilization … Xinjiang planned to subject at least 80 percent of women of childbearing age in the rural southern four minority prefectures to intrusive birth prevention surgeries (IUDs or sterilizations), with actual shares likely being much higher.” https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-birthrate-sterilization-genocide https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/22311356/chi... I will not be responding further.

szhsh 5y ago
I'm making what are pretty obvious, factual claims. I don't think that any of the factual statements I'm making are even controversial. It's just the interpretation that has suddenly dramatically shifted in the US and some of its allied countries. The UN Genocide Convention is very clear about what is and is not genocide. There's no possible way to construe a situation like this, in which the population and life expectancy of the group is increasing, as genocide. In fact, describing it as genocide sounds like propaganda. If the Chinese government were trying to physically annihilate the Uyghurs, which is what the very serious word "genocide" means, it would be obvious. We would not be discussing whether or not the 3-child limit was being more aggressively enforced on Uyghurs. We would be discussing mass death. I don't need the CCP to tell me that "genocide" implies mass killing and physical annihilation of a people. I'm perfectly capable of seeing that the word "genocide" is being misused in a highly manipulative way in the political discussion nowadays, and of pushing back against that.