9 ms·

Maybe, but it's in a context of strong Chinese = Enemy thinking that has been plaguing American academia the last years: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/worl

Maybe, but it's in a context of strong Chinese = Enemy thinking that has been plaguing American academia the last years: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/asia/china-university-spies.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/asia/china-universi... https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/wrongly-prosecuted-chinese-american-scientist-moves-forward-new-complaint-against https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/wrongly-prosecuted-chine...

defaultprimate 5y ago
The propaganda is strong with this one
Guessnotgauss 5y ago
China isnt doing the US any favors, lets not pretend any nation state of that size on either side has alturistic intentions. But I am wondering why you are framing it like its no bid deal. How much does China share with the US? There is a history of IP theft, and its not for the betterment of mankind it's self interest. You could point fingers but then the whole world goes blind. Nationalism is blindness, better to be patriotic but not blind.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  IP theft is for the betterment of mankind. It was when the US stole British IP and it is too when China steals American IP. It's not also anywhere near as clear cut in self interest as you say. Even within China, Chinese companies aren't given that much IP protection. In the end 1.4 billion people are better off for it. I struggle to see how mankind isn't better off for it.
  - oxymoran 5y ago
    Yea because the CCP has a long track record of sharing, especially with North Korea. Upstanding global citizens they are.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    > It was when the US stole British IP Was it really stealing? The British pretty much did nothing to stop it nor protected their IP. They certainly didn't strongly enforce it. Contrast that with Chinese theft; as soon as counterfeit products or patent infringing ones make it to US soil they are promptly seized and destroyed if found to be infringing the laws.
    - prewett 5y ago
      I'm no fan of Chinese IP theft, but it is not true that the British did nothing to protect their IP. When Francis Lowell [1] went to Britain to learn about cotton mills, he could find nothing printed, and I believe it was illegal to take notes out of the country. At any rate, he was searched when he left, but he had studied the machinery and memorized plans for it. When he got back, he built the first textile mill in the US. I think publishers in the young United States, having no copyright laws on sheet music, blatantly copied sheet music from British publishers. However, I'm not able to find a source on that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Cabot_Lowell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Cabot_Lowell
      - 908B64B197 5y ago
        > but he had studied the machinery and memorized plans for it Did he? There's no evidence for that. To me, it sounds like a smart Harvard grad just figured out a few missing pieces required to get textile manufacturing going. Wasn't his first time doing industrial processes at scale either: he successfully ran a distillery before that. It's also interesting to remember that it happened at a time England was in open war against the United States. It's not really the same right now with Chinese companies trying to get into the US market and vice versa. Both countries claim to be allied but there's a clear disregard for the laws of one particular country! Maybe a better analogy to what Francis Lowell did would be operation paperclip. The US did steal technology from Germany at the end of the war [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
        GhettoComputers 5y ago
  - kube-system 5y ago
    Regardless of attitudes towards commercial IP, most countries take it pretty seriously when defense-related research is stolen. You might get off the hook in China for stealing commercial IP, but I doubt you'd get the same response for violating research agreements with the PLA.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      China stole a lot of the fighter jet blueprints like this stealth one. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/hacked-how-china-stole-us-technology-its-j-20-stealth-fighter-66231 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/hacked-how-china-stol... What is the US response? I don't even know.
      - kube-system 5y ago
        The US extradited the guy from Canada who did it and put him in federal prison, there were increasing threats of sanctions, and Obama met with Xi to talk about it.
        GhettoComputers 5y ago
        I remember this other case too, look at all he stole, and almost 4 years in prison, I am sure he will learn his lesson and never do it again. https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/15/12196872/chinese-man-us-prison-hack-military-secrets https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/15/12196872/chinese-man-us-p... >increasing threats of sanctions So threats, no real sanctions, not that the steel sanctions did anything, somehow Vietnam started selling us all their steel after we sanction China for other reasons.
        kube-system 5y ago
        My point above is, that’s a lot more than will happen for pirating a DVD in China.
        GhettoComputers 5y ago
- Trombone12 5y ago
  Sorry what? I post stories about the FBI harassing academics with Chinese connections while not finding any crime, and you accuse me of framing IP theft as something mild? Have you also spent most of last year accusing George Floyd protesters of downplaying the importance of paying for cigarettes?
- worik 5y ago
  > There is a history of IP theft, and its not for the betterment of mankind it's self interest Yes. The betterment of the human race is an unintended consequence. Real but.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    China historically didn’t have IP law, just property of the state. It’s why you don’t see many inventions there aside from government contracted ones like gunpowder. No profit= no incentive.
- KorematsuFredt 5y ago
  A friend of friend, a doctor of Chinese origin was caught under Trump administration for stealing "critical IP" and giving it to Chinese scientists. I do not know all the details but later it was revealed that the Doctor who was treating child cancer patients in USA shared the best practices and treatment plans that seems to have worked better than others to his doctor contacts in China.
  - demadog 5y ago
    In courts they evaluate cases by each situation, so this would be treated differently than other theft, in theory.
    - KorematsuFredt 5y ago
      Read this : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-06-13/the-u-s-is-purging-chinese-americans-from-top-cancer-research https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-06-13/the-u-s-i... > The NIH and the FBI are targeting ethnic Chinese scientists, including U.S. citizens, searching for a cancer cure. Here’s the first account of what happened to Xifeng Wu. > Her resignation, and the departures in recent months of three other top Chinese American scientists from Houston-based MD Anderson, stem from a Trump administration drive to counter Chinese influence at U.S. research institutions. The aim is to stanch China’s well-documented and costly theft of U.S. innovation and know-how. The collateral effect, however, is to stymie basic science, the foundational research that underlies new medical treatments. Everything is commodified in the economic cold war with China, including the struggle to find a cure for cancer. > Ways of working that have long been encouraged by the NIH and many research institutions, particularly MD Anderson, are now quasi-criminalized, with FBI agents reading private emails, stopping Chinese scientists at airports, and visiting people’s homes to ask about their loyalty. Like in above case where the person is being entangled into an IRS tax evasion case, these people are being ethnically targeted, questions, harassed, their constitutional rights being trampled upon.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    What classified it as "critical IP"? Was there some oath or some papers he wasn't supposed to use any of these practices?
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  >China isnt doing the US any favors, lets not pretend any nation state of that size on either side has alturistic intentions. They manufacture all the American goods for cheap, to benefit themselves but to say there is no partnership is not honest. >How much does China share with the US? They use manpower, for IP they ignore the IP laws usually, so if you mean sciences, there are frequent collaborations. >There is a history of IP theft The US did not enforce IP laws until they had a sizable amount to use as leverage, I see China doing the same. >and its not for the betterment of mankind it's self interest. Self interest does not have to be a zero sum game. Oil baron enriched themselves and also provided cheap oil.
  - catlikesshrimp 5y ago
    "They manufacture all the American goods for cheap, to benefit themselves but to say there is no partnership is not honest." Outsourcing labor to China has diminished the US so much. It is like the Heroin of economics for Americans.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      >Outsourcing labor to China has diminished the US so much. It is like the Heroin of economics for Americans. Whose fault is that? China's for taking the deal?
  - samhw 5y ago
    I don't know why this is downvoted. This is talking the most sense out of anyone in the thread. Talking about American companies choosing to outsource labour to China as if it's some kind of casus belli is absurd.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      Check out some of my other posts here! Most of the people have been fed propaganda, they probably think the tank man was run over. I can't believe that enabling China to take advantage is seen as an evil, the companies sold out America for cheaper labor, even after they cut benefits, and now cry about stolen IP from a country that in popular culture is know to copy products (poorly). Slavery is now seen as an expensive mistake, and so is outsourcing work to a poor country that copies designs, none of this is a suprise. They could have stayed and enriched the workers, paid them well so the economy did well, and kept their secret designs in a country that respected IP laws. The US as a culture lacks long term planning, like in infastucture, the length of the next elections, these companies saw short term profits mattered more and slaying the golden goose was the genius move.
- footlose_3815 5y ago
  [dead]
oxymoran 5y ago
Oh come on. China has clear ambitions to be the worlds superpower. I have my gripes about the US, but China is clearly a much worse outcome for human rights. It’s not that they are the “enemy”, it’s that it would be flat out unacceptable for the CCP to control the entire planet. What’s plaguing American academia, and America at large, is China’s influence and bribes.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  But controlling the planet is an american concept. They frame China as a competitor and China react with absurd misunderstanding because they're not seeing each other and the planet the same way. Here in China (Im an imigrant), what matters is the forced march to progress at all cost, even human rights, under the guidance of the glorious leader Xi. Nobody in the party or the population gives a flying fuck about invading countries and all international propaganda is made not to submit to China as an individual but to repeat the glorious mission statement for the party internal work when speaking only about China. I disagree with the party's method because they forget that we ll pay the price of the crunch once the middle class is emancipated and need to start being politically responsible: as long as we ask monkeys to program computers we wont expand so we need to accept having free citizens or to not progress. However the US truly aim at facilitating the expansion of its companies via cultural assimilation, MUCH more than what China does now (it could come later ofc), and entire countries are transformed via soft propaganda (movies and such) to adapt and start consuming american products that wouldnt matter otherwise. It's better than the Camps in Xinjian, but the camps are IN Xinjian, not in Normandy where I grew up under american influence. So meh, balance. Both should compete until the end of time so they leave us alone.
  - demadog 5y ago
    One is forced, the other is chosen. For the most part global citizens choose to watch Netflix and Disney and listen to Lil Wayne. Different story with internment camps. Put another way, Americans listen to K-pop and watch Parasite because it’s good and they want to.
    - 5y ago
ryeights 5y ago
[flagged]
- Trombone12 5y ago
  It says "chinese" for a reason dude, and the problem is obviously that you are harassing innocent people. And if you don't see that as human rights problem, consider you're wasting your finite intelligence resources on dead ends and so you're not finding the traditional spies that's just some dude that's been bribed.
  - ryeights 5y ago
    Charles Lieber is not Chinese. So what is your point? On a more general note: Your style of argument is really tired. Who is going to commit wrongdoing on the part of the Chinese government if not mostly Chinese people? You can always try to reframe the issue as one of discrimination, since most of the offenders are bound to be Chinese. It’s pointless.
    - szhsh 5y ago
      So far, the "China Initiative" cases have not gone well for the government, though they have still done a lot of damage to innocent people who were targeted.[0] It's also clear that ethnically Chinese people have been specifically targeted. Anming Hu is a Canadian citizen born in China, who was a professor at the University of Tennessee. The FBI got him fired before he even went to trial by telling the University he was a spy. In the end, all the FBI actually had on him was that he hadn't reported a small speaking fee on an official form. It wasn't even obvious if reporting the fee was necessary. The whole thing turned out to be a racially motivated fishing expedition by some local FBI agent, and Hu was acquitted. But the FBI majorly screwed up his life and career and smeared him in public first. A lot of the cases have turned out to be like this. See Gang Chen's case at MIT. That one is almost Kafkaesque, when you read the charges and then read the background. 0. https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-09-16/why-trump-china-initiative-unraveling https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-09-16/why-trump-...
- 5y ago
imchillyb 5y ago
China = Enemy /of the entire world/. You forgot that last part. China's trade dealings are outright hostile. China's overlooking slave-wages, and suicides tied to working conditions or lack thereof. China must be considered /by all/ to be an enemy of the rest of the globe. This is not saying that the Chinese populace are enemies, but the Chinese Government, which controls the populace, is most definitely so.
- ashwagary 5y ago
  >China = enemy of the entire world This is a mostly western view since westerners engaged in a zero sum conflict with the oldest super power on the planet to gain temporary economic advantages for the last 100 years or so... most of the world doesn't agree with that view of China even with the $ billions ($trillions?) of anti-Chinese propaganda spending by the west.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  I think what they did in Africa is fantastic compared to what the western powers did for over a century, building infrastructure (mostly for extraction, but also civilian use) is much better than the western world funding warlords to capture mines for slave labor to fund our electronics fetish. Instead of causing more harm they gave them a bad deal, but much better than anything the west offered in which they funded groups of militia that caused harm to the common people. If you consider the alternative, it is much kinder, I wish the US would use less shock and awe, but when it refuses to build infrastructure even in its own country, what do you expect? The US is not a building civilization, its power and culture is warmongering and resource extraction, not long term planning outside the US or internally. America as the world police/bully and China leverages itself by being slightly better. The US should offer a better deal than China can, its better than bombing the shit out of people, scaring them with weapons, and having them hate us for killing their countrymen or family.
  - catlikesshrimp 5y ago
    China is the country forcing small states to cut ties with Taiwan. And don't even think about saying it is not forcing them, because I have lived in two such countries in Central America where Taiwan was a hefty money donor.

defaultprimate 5y ago

The propaganda is strong with this one

Guessnotgauss 5y ago

China isnt doing the US any favors, lets not pretend any nation state of that size on either side has alturistic intentions. But I am wondering why you are framing it like its no bid deal. How much does China share with the US? There is a history of IP theft, and its not for the betterment of mankind it's self interest. You could point fingers but then the whole world goes blind. Nationalism is blindness, better to be patriotic but not blind.

sudosysgen 5y ago
IP theft is for the betterment of mankind. It was when the US stole British IP and it is too when China steals American IP. It's not also anywhere near as clear cut in self interest as you say. Even within China, Chinese companies aren't given that much IP protection. In the end 1.4 billion people are better off for it. I struggle to see how mankind isn't better off for it.
- oxymoran 5y ago
  Yea because the CCP has a long track record of sharing, especially with North Korea. Upstanding global citizens they are.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > It was when the US stole British IP Was it really stealing? The British pretty much did nothing to stop it nor protected their IP. They certainly didn't strongly enforce it. Contrast that with Chinese theft; as soon as counterfeit products or patent infringing ones make it to US soil they are promptly seized and destroyed if found to be infringing the laws.
  - prewett 5y ago
    I'm no fan of Chinese IP theft, but it is not true that the British did nothing to protect their IP. When Francis Lowell [1] went to Britain to learn about cotton mills, he could find nothing printed, and I believe it was illegal to take notes out of the country. At any rate, he was searched when he left, but he had studied the machinery and memorized plans for it. When he got back, he built the first textile mill in the US. I think publishers in the young United States, having no copyright laws on sheet music, blatantly copied sheet music from British publishers. However, I'm not able to find a source on that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Cabot_Lowell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Cabot_Lowell
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      > but he had studied the machinery and memorized plans for it Did he? There's no evidence for that. To me, it sounds like a smart Harvard grad just figured out a few missing pieces required to get textile manufacturing going. Wasn't his first time doing industrial processes at scale either: he successfully ran a distillery before that. It's also interesting to remember that it happened at a time England was in open war against the United States. It's not really the same right now with Chinese companies trying to get into the US market and vice versa. Both countries claim to be allied but there's a clear disregard for the laws of one particular country! Maybe a better analogy to what Francis Lowell did would be operation paperclip. The US did steal technology from Germany at the end of the war [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
      - GhettoComputers 5y ago
- kube-system 5y ago
  Regardless of attitudes towards commercial IP, most countries take it pretty seriously when defense-related research is stolen. You might get off the hook in China for stealing commercial IP, but I doubt you'd get the same response for violating research agreements with the PLA.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    China stole a lot of the fighter jet blueprints like this stealth one. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/hacked-how-china-stole-us-technology-its-j-20-stealth-fighter-66231 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/hacked-how-china-stol... What is the US response? I don't even know.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      The US extradited the guy from Canada who did it and put him in federal prison, there were increasing threats of sanctions, and Obama met with Xi to talk about it.
      - GhettoComputers 5y ago
        I remember this other case too, look at all he stole, and almost 4 years in prison, I am sure he will learn his lesson and never do it again. https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/15/12196872/chinese-man-us-prison-hack-military-secrets https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/15/12196872/chinese-man-us-p... >increasing threats of sanctions So threats, no real sanctions, not that the steel sanctions did anything, somehow Vietnam started selling us all their steel after we sanction China for other reasons.
        kube-system 5y ago
        My point above is, that’s a lot more than will happen for pirating a DVD in China.
        GhettoComputers 5y ago
Trombone12 5y ago
Sorry what? I post stories about the FBI harassing academics with Chinese connections while not finding any crime, and you accuse me of framing IP theft as something mild? Have you also spent most of last year accusing George Floyd protesters of downplaying the importance of paying for cigarettes?
worik 5y ago
> There is a history of IP theft, and its not for the betterment of mankind it's self interest Yes. The betterment of the human race is an unintended consequence. Real but.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  China historically didn’t have IP law, just property of the state. It’s why you don’t see many inventions there aside from government contracted ones like gunpowder. No profit= no incentive.
KorematsuFredt 5y ago
A friend of friend, a doctor of Chinese origin was caught under Trump administration for stealing "critical IP" and giving it to Chinese scientists. I do not know all the details but later it was revealed that the Doctor who was treating child cancer patients in USA shared the best practices and treatment plans that seems to have worked better than others to his doctor contacts in China.
- demadog 5y ago
  In courts they evaluate cases by each situation, so this would be treated differently than other theft, in theory.
  - KorematsuFredt 5y ago
    Read this : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-06-13/the-u-s-is-purging-chinese-americans-from-top-cancer-research https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-06-13/the-u-s-i... > The NIH and the FBI are targeting ethnic Chinese scientists, including U.S. citizens, searching for a cancer cure. Here’s the first account of what happened to Xifeng Wu. > Her resignation, and the departures in recent months of three other top Chinese American scientists from Houston-based MD Anderson, stem from a Trump administration drive to counter Chinese influence at U.S. research institutions. The aim is to stanch China’s well-documented and costly theft of U.S. innovation and know-how. The collateral effect, however, is to stymie basic science, the foundational research that underlies new medical treatments. Everything is commodified in the economic cold war with China, including the struggle to find a cure for cancer. > Ways of working that have long been encouraged by the NIH and many research institutions, particularly MD Anderson, are now quasi-criminalized, with FBI agents reading private emails, stopping Chinese scientists at airports, and visiting people’s homes to ask about their loyalty. Like in above case where the person is being entangled into an IRS tax evasion case, these people are being ethnically targeted, questions, harassed, their constitutional rights being trampled upon.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  What classified it as "critical IP"? Was there some oath or some papers he wasn't supposed to use any of these practices?
GhettoComputers 5y ago
>China isnt doing the US any favors, lets not pretend any nation state of that size on either side has alturistic intentions. They manufacture all the American goods for cheap, to benefit themselves but to say there is no partnership is not honest. >How much does China share with the US? They use manpower, for IP they ignore the IP laws usually, so if you mean sciences, there are frequent collaborations. >There is a history of IP theft The US did not enforce IP laws until they had a sizable amount to use as leverage, I see China doing the same. >and its not for the betterment of mankind it's self interest. Self interest does not have to be a zero sum game. Oil baron enriched themselves and also provided cheap oil.
- catlikesshrimp 5y ago
  "They manufacture all the American goods for cheap, to benefit themselves but to say there is no partnership is not honest." Outsourcing labor to China has diminished the US so much. It is like the Heroin of economics for Americans.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    >Outsourcing labor to China has diminished the US so much. It is like the Heroin of economics for Americans. Whose fault is that? China's for taking the deal?
- samhw 5y ago
  I don't know why this is downvoted. This is talking the most sense out of anyone in the thread. Talking about American companies choosing to outsource labour to China as if it's some kind of casus belli is absurd.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Check out some of my other posts here! Most of the people have been fed propaganda, they probably think the tank man was run over. I can't believe that enabling China to take advantage is seen as an evil, the companies sold out America for cheaper labor, even after they cut benefits, and now cry about stolen IP from a country that in popular culture is know to copy products (poorly). Slavery is now seen as an expensive mistake, and so is outsourcing work to a poor country that copies designs, none of this is a suprise. They could have stayed and enriched the workers, paid them well so the economy did well, and kept their secret designs in a country that respected IP laws. The US as a culture lacks long term planning, like in infastucture, the length of the next elections, these companies saw short term profits mattered more and slaying the golden goose was the genius move.
footlose_3815 5y ago
[dead]

oxymoran 5y ago

Oh come on. China has clear ambitions to be the worlds superpower. I have my gripes about the US, but China is clearly a much worse outcome for human rights. It’s not that they are the “enemy”, it’s that it would be flat out unacceptable for the CCP to control the entire planet. What’s plaguing American academia, and America at large, is China’s influence and bribes.

xwolfi 5y ago
But controlling the planet is an american concept. They frame China as a competitor and China react with absurd misunderstanding because they're not seeing each other and the planet the same way. Here in China (Im an imigrant), what matters is the forced march to progress at all cost, even human rights, under the guidance of the glorious leader Xi. Nobody in the party or the population gives a flying fuck about invading countries and all international propaganda is made not to submit to China as an individual but to repeat the glorious mission statement for the party internal work when speaking only about China. I disagree with the party's method because they forget that we ll pay the price of the crunch once the middle class is emancipated and need to start being politically responsible: as long as we ask monkeys to program computers we wont expand so we need to accept having free citizens or to not progress. However the US truly aim at facilitating the expansion of its companies via cultural assimilation, MUCH more than what China does now (it could come later ofc), and entire countries are transformed via soft propaganda (movies and such) to adapt and start consuming american products that wouldnt matter otherwise. It's better than the Camps in Xinjian, but the camps are IN Xinjian, not in Normandy where I grew up under american influence. So meh, balance. Both should compete until the end of time so they leave us alone.
- demadog 5y ago
  One is forced, the other is chosen. For the most part global citizens choose to watch Netflix and Disney and listen to Lil Wayne. Different story with internment camps. Put another way, Americans listen to K-pop and watch Parasite because it’s good and they want to.
  - 5y ago

ryeights 5y ago

[flagged]

Trombone12 5y ago
It says "chinese" for a reason dude, and the problem is obviously that you are harassing innocent people. And if you don't see that as human rights problem, consider you're wasting your finite intelligence resources on dead ends and so you're not finding the traditional spies that's just some dude that's been bribed.
- ryeights 5y ago
  Charles Lieber is not Chinese. So what is your point? On a more general note: Your style of argument is really tired. Who is going to commit wrongdoing on the part of the Chinese government if not mostly Chinese people? You can always try to reframe the issue as one of discrimination, since most of the offenders are bound to be Chinese. It’s pointless.
  - szhsh 5y ago
    So far, the "China Initiative" cases have not gone well for the government, though they have still done a lot of damage to innocent people who were targeted.[0] It's also clear that ethnically Chinese people have been specifically targeted. Anming Hu is a Canadian citizen born in China, who was a professor at the University of Tennessee. The FBI got him fired before he even went to trial by telling the University he was a spy. In the end, all the FBI actually had on him was that he hadn't reported a small speaking fee on an official form. It wasn't even obvious if reporting the fee was necessary. The whole thing turned out to be a racially motivated fishing expedition by some local FBI agent, and Hu was acquitted. But the FBI majorly screwed up his life and career and smeared him in public first. A lot of the cases have turned out to be like this. See Gang Chen's case at MIT. That one is almost Kafkaesque, when you read the charges and then read the background. 0. https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-09-16/why-trump-china-initiative-unraveling https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-09-16/why-trump-...
5y ago

imchillyb 5y ago

China = Enemy /of the entire world/. You forgot that last part. China's trade dealings are outright hostile. China's overlooking slave-wages, and suicides tied to working conditions or lack thereof. China must be considered /by all/ to be an enemy of the rest of the globe. This is not saying that the Chinese populace are enemies, but the Chinese Government, which controls the populace, is most definitely so.

ashwagary 5y ago
>China = enemy of the entire world This is a mostly western view since westerners engaged in a zero sum conflict with the oldest super power on the planet to gain temporary economic advantages for the last 100 years or so... most of the world doesn't agree with that view of China even with the $ billions ($trillions?) of anti-Chinese propaganda spending by the west.
GhettoComputers 5y ago
I think what they did in Africa is fantastic compared to what the western powers did for over a century, building infrastructure (mostly for extraction, but also civilian use) is much better than the western world funding warlords to capture mines for slave labor to fund our electronics fetish. Instead of causing more harm they gave them a bad deal, but much better than anything the west offered in which they funded groups of militia that caused harm to the common people. If you consider the alternative, it is much kinder, I wish the US would use less shock and awe, but when it refuses to build infrastructure even in its own country, what do you expect? The US is not a building civilization, its power and culture is warmongering and resource extraction, not long term planning outside the US or internally. America as the world police/bully and China leverages itself by being slightly better. The US should offer a better deal than China can, its better than bombing the shit out of people, scaring them with weapons, and having them hate us for killing their countrymen or family.
- catlikesshrimp 5y ago
  China is the country forcing small states to cut ties with Taiwan. And don't even think about saying it is not forcing them, because I have lived in two such countries in Central America where Taiwan was a hefty money donor.