5 ms·
this irks me greatly, i only read the first few paragraphs don't agree with it much. some random observations from an austrian: * it's known for quite some tim
by stefs 5y ago
this irks me greatly, i only read the first few paragraphs don't agree with it much. some random observations from an austrian:
* it's known for quite some time that the vaccine doesn't reduce the infection numbers that much (for various reasons); the effect is now measured by the numbers of hospitalizations. almost all of those in intensive care are not vaccinated (the rest are suffering from impaired immune systems). non-icu patient rate is mostly unvaccinated, especially if a 70% vaccination rate is considered.
ireland population: ~5 mil, deaths per day in december 21: between 7 and 12
austrian population: ~9 mil, deaths per day in december 21: between 55 and 60
see https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/austria?country=AUT~IRL#what-is-the-daily-number-of-confirmed-deaths https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/austria?count...
* the problem in austria, as in many other affected countries, is the collapse of the public health system due to ICU load and staff attrition. remember, it's not about the beds, it's about the staff. we've got a burnout epidemic which is worsened by unmasked protestors in front of the hospitals while nurses are already completely exhausted. there have been unofficial reports of triage, bodies of the deceased stored in hallways. there are abandoned hospital stations because the whole staff has been relegated to the covid stations. non-essential procedures are delayed delayed indefinitely.
* the bodily autonomy only applies if it only affects you and not the people around it. i can't bring the bodily autonomy principle to justify smoking cigarettes in a day care or driving on public streets under the influence. the problem with bodily autonomy and vaccines is such an idiotic one, thanks to the morons that misinterpreted the financial fraudster andrew wakefield. i know it's a bit more complicated than that, but vaccinations rarely were an issue at all, when, say, you were to travel to an african or south easian holiday destination. it only started to be a problem when it became politicized.
* there have been rare but rising cases of violence, but i can't recall a single one which wasn't by anti-vaxxers against security or hospital personnel. it's actually a huge problem - many doctors stopped vaccinating people because they've been harassed and threatened by irate anti-vaxxers. there are cases of small town politicians being threatened by the mob ("drag him out!").
* there are large scale protests all over the country. almost all of them are organized by right-wing parties and/or neo-nazi groups (there's significant overlap). the FPÖ (the right wing party) used to be pro mandatory vaccinations until very recently, when the policy would affect mostly immigrants. some of those protests are staged in front of hospitals, hindering ambulances and intimidating staff.
* measures like extended lockdowns for the unvaccinated have failed because they were simply ignored, either with fake certificates or just hoping not to get caught.
i used to be against mandatory vaccination and would have preferred a different solution: ranking unvaxxed-by-choice patients lower than vaccinated patients. this proposal has been rejected (for multiple reasons).
tbh i'm not optimistic. with omicron approaching the situation in the hospitals will be even more catastrophic than it ever was. i just hope that there wont be any medical emergencies in my family.
so right now we have 50 deaths a day even though every patient gets a hospital / ICU bed. with omikron those numbers are going to explode.
other than that, i feel like i've read every single of his arguments repelled a thousand times by scientists. lower numbers in africa can be explained by a lower average age. omikron less severe than expected because of high levels of natural antibodies from previous infections, etc. etc. etc.
- headsoup 5y agoWhen all signs on Omicron so far are that it is mild, why would deaths and ICUs explode? And you say extended lockdowns for the unvaxed have failed because they 'cheated' without mention that being vaccinated does not a) stop you getting covid or b) prevent you spreading it. Most of your points here are rote repetition of the media talking points that the article author spoke about. And the bodily autonomy point about unvaxed affecting those around. Aren't they vaxed, therefore not concerned? Or do you refer to some apparently extremely common type of person who is not only immuno compromised (they've been getting vaxed too) but unable to be vaxed and with huge comorbidities that likes hanging around sick people?
- stefs 5y agoall signs point to far higher infectiousness, which means more infected. if the rate of hospitalizations per infection stay the same, absolute hospitalizations will rise according to the total infection numbers plus a higher rate of vaccinated patients due to the lowered effectiveness. we had to to relocate patients to hospitals in other states only a few days ago because some of them were already completely at or over capacity. i fear that with omikron the numbers will rise to a level where there just isn't enough capacity, and in that case the survival rate of (potential) ICU patients will drop from 50% to ... well. what do you think happens if you send an ICU patient home? > And you say extended lockdowns for the unvaxed have failed because they 'cheated' without mention that being vaccinated does not a) stop you getting covid or b) prevent you spreading it. it's true that being vaccinated doesn't stop you getting covid, but it reduces the chance of getting it greatly. it also doesn't prevent you spreading it, but the window of you being infectious is smaller and you'll just a lot less infectious if you're not infected yourself due to the vaccine. > Most of your points here are rote repetition of the media talking points well, they're the talking points of scientists i trust on this issue. i perceive his talking points as rote repetition of media talking points too, just from right wing/denier media. > Aren't they vaxed, therefore not concerned? all the vaccine does is lowering the risk! it doesn't make the unvaxxed immune. nobody denies that. the vaccination is just one action of many. a powerful one though. ireland has high rates of vaccination and few deaths. austria has comparably low rates of vaccination and many more of deaths. it's not that complicated! vaccination never would have been made mandatory if people would have gone on their own, but since the right started to radicalize and mobilize people this chance is lost forever.