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The huge problem with this narrative is that it compares a societal exclusion based on a choice (not getting vaxxed) with segregation due to birth characteristi

The huge problem with this narrative is that it compares a societal exclusion based on a choice (not getting vaxxed) with segregation due to birth characteristics (ethnicity, skin color). I don’t doubt the need to have this discussion about authoritarianism, but the exaggeration of comparing it to nazi times or apartheid (as this line of thinking inevitably implies) is utterly disrespectful to the victims of real regimes.

sm4rk0 5y ago
Why do you underrate someone's choices? People were also segregated based on their choices in Nazi Germany. The comparison is still valid because the consequences could be the same if this doesn't stop.
headsoup 5y ago
I think one problem here is the assumption the negative choice is 100% wrong, with people only possibly declining through some sort of irrationality. It is a false choice if one answer is discriminated against specifically. If that's OK, then persecuting religion is to be supported just by stating 'but they have a choice to change religion.' Because you don't share a belief, does that make it OK to persecute others for it? Is their own informed view and decision about their health and how it might affect others to be over-ridden to suit yours? Is the truth 100% clear to justify yourself? Obese people have the choice to stop eating, should we ban them from restaurants and medical services because of their 'choice?' Fear makes people mean and willing to harm others for the sake of their own perceived risk avoidance (don't pretend it's all for the 'greater good' with all the other day to day suffering we contribute to at the cost of others) without a second thought.
- camillomiller 5y ago
  Nope. And nobody is banning novaxxed from getting medical care for free, for example, in Austria and Germany. And nobody ever will, because that’s unconstitutional. Yet, every single European constitution allows a degree of authority to the state, when the impositions are about catering to the safety and well being of the majority of society. I agree that vaccines are not the magic wand some science zealots would like them to be. Put what’s even clearer, is how the lack of vaccination affects and strains the national medical systems. Every decision has be taken with that as a beacon. Novaxxers here aren’t simply free thinkers. They’re totalitarians attacking scientific proof, wishing that their magical thinking could be taken as reference by policymaking. They’re above all extreme individualists who put their personal choice in front of everyone else’s well being, out of principle. They are, in other words, anti-social elements, that are willing to risk the well being of their fellow citizens for a libertarian choice often rooted in misconception and misinformation.
  - tasogare 5y ago
    > And nobody is banning novaxxed from getting medical care for free False. France has at some point subordinated access to non-covid related health services to vaccination status. >They’re totalitarians attacking scientific proof, wishing that their magical thinking Post a copy of your PhD please. Not only you are lying on easily verifiable facts as mentionned previously, but you obviously have no idea what is science and how it is made. There is a reason vaccination hesitancy is highest (~25%) amoung PhD level educated people: precisely because they know the limit of science and how it is manipulated in the public discurse.
    - stavros 5y ago
      > precisely because they know the limit of science and how it is manipulated in the public discurse. Followed by the "high school or less" group at 20%, presumably for the same reasons, then? Also, you balk at the GP calling antivaxxers "totalitarians", yet you say this in a comment below: > I therefore propose to use an experimental vaccine using Guillotinine (a molecule related to quinine) and administer it to a selected test subjects such as Pfizer's and Moderna CEOs, CEO of big TV network as well as a few ministers of health and selected parliamentarians. I bet that covid will cease to be a thing in less than two weeks after injection.
    - silicon2401 5y ago
      > Post a copy of your PhD please. Not taking a side but this is an ad hominem argument > vaccination hesitancy is highest (~25%) amoung PhD level educated people: could you share a source for this? sounds fascinating
      - alamortsubite 5y ago
        It's FUD from a self-reported Facebook survey earlier this year: https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-the-record-straight-on-claims-about-vaccine-hesitancy-among-ph-d-s/ https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-...

sm4rk0 5y ago

Why do you underrate someone's choices? People were also segregated based on their choices in Nazi Germany. The comparison is still valid because the consequences could be the same if this doesn't stop.

headsoup 5y ago

I think one problem here is the assumption the negative choice is 100% wrong, with people only possibly declining through some sort of irrationality. It is a false choice if one answer is discriminated against specifically. If that's OK, then persecuting religion is to be supported just by stating 'but they have a choice to change religion.' Because you don't share a belief, does that make it OK to persecute others for it? Is their own informed view and decision about their health and how it might affect others to be over-ridden to suit yours? Is the truth 100% clear to justify yourself? Obese people have the choice to stop eating, should we ban them from restaurants and medical services because of their 'choice?' Fear makes people mean and willing to harm others for the sake of their own perceived risk avoidance (don't pretend it's all for the 'greater good' with all the other day to day suffering we contribute to at the cost of others) without a second thought.

camillomiller 5y ago
Nope. And nobody is banning novaxxed from getting medical care for free, for example, in Austria and Germany. And nobody ever will, because that’s unconstitutional. Yet, every single European constitution allows a degree of authority to the state, when the impositions are about catering to the safety and well being of the majority of society. I agree that vaccines are not the magic wand some science zealots would like them to be. Put what’s even clearer, is how the lack of vaccination affects and strains the national medical systems. Every decision has be taken with that as a beacon. Novaxxers here aren’t simply free thinkers. They’re totalitarians attacking scientific proof, wishing that their magical thinking could be taken as reference by policymaking. They’re above all extreme individualists who put their personal choice in front of everyone else’s well being, out of principle. They are, in other words, anti-social elements, that are willing to risk the well being of their fellow citizens for a libertarian choice often rooted in misconception and misinformation.
- tasogare 5y ago
  > And nobody is banning novaxxed from getting medical care for free False. France has at some point subordinated access to non-covid related health services to vaccination status. >They’re totalitarians attacking scientific proof, wishing that their magical thinking Post a copy of your PhD please. Not only you are lying on easily verifiable facts as mentionned previously, but you obviously have no idea what is science and how it is made. There is a reason vaccination hesitancy is highest (~25%) amoung PhD level educated people: precisely because they know the limit of science and how it is manipulated in the public discurse.
  - stavros 5y ago
    > precisely because they know the limit of science and how it is manipulated in the public discurse. Followed by the "high school or less" group at 20%, presumably for the same reasons, then? Also, you balk at the GP calling antivaxxers "totalitarians", yet you say this in a comment below: > I therefore propose to use an experimental vaccine using Guillotinine (a molecule related to quinine) and administer it to a selected test subjects such as Pfizer's and Moderna CEOs, CEO of big TV network as well as a few ministers of health and selected parliamentarians. I bet that covid will cease to be a thing in less than two weeks after injection.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    > Post a copy of your PhD please. Not taking a side but this is an ad hominem argument > vaccination hesitancy is highest (~25%) amoung PhD level educated people: could you share a source for this? sounds fascinating
    - alamortsubite 5y ago
      It's FUD from a self-reported Facebook survey earlier this year: https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-the-record-straight-on-claims-about-vaccine-hesitancy-among-ph-d-s/ https://www.wnct.com/news/north-carolina/fact-check-setting-...