4 ms·

> I think we should differentiate between single-use programs and those that are more of an investment. No you shouldn’t. What might be single use for Bob migh

> I think we should differentiate between single-use programs and those that are more of an investment. No you shouldn’t. What might be single use for Bob might be a daily driver for Bev. The Ribbon bar is a great example of that. It’s targeting people who use applications daily but I only use Word or Excel sporadically and really miss the old menus and toolbars. But there’s going to be tools I use daily that others might only use sporadically.

kaba0 5y ago
The ribbon bar is much more directed at discoverability for beginners, while the old design corresponds to features hidden behind menus under menus. So you being a sporadic user would (should) fare better with the Ribbon bar, it’s just probably that you remember the older version and change is painful.
- laumars 5y ago
  It’s not the change that’s the issue. It’s the lack of context for what icons do without clicking them. Text offers that context. But maybe the ribbon wasn’t the best example of my earlier point about the UI needs of sporadic users vs regular users. Or maybe it illustrates the point really we’ll but the context should be casual users vs power users rather than the frequency of usage?
jrm4 5y ago
If only there were a way to let Bob use what Bob likes and Bev use what Bev likes? Like giving people options? Like setting up a nice default, but also providing a path for individuals who want to change things in a meaningful way if they choose? I'm sorry, but it's REALLY hard to not be snarky about this. Apple has absolutely suckered the world into thinking that "nice default interface" and "ability to change your interface" are somehow zero-sum, and there is no reason for this to be the case. This deficient thinking has even wormed it's way into Linux, look at the current direction of GNOME. Sigh.
- laumars 5y ago
  I don’t have an issue with Linux DEs behaving like this because you have the freedom to install other WM and DEs.
  - jrm4 5y ago
    I have a problem with GNOME specifically because it changed courses so drastically; it was open and friendly and then by GNOME 3 decided not to be. Bit of a bait-and-switch in my opinion.
    - laumars 5y ago
      Project authors need to have the ability to own the project that author if there’s any hope of it growing and evolving with the times. We might not always agree with the leadership in a particular project but as like as it is open source that’s not a problem as anyone can then fork it and add their own vision to the fork. Which is precisely what happened with GNOME. As an author of FOSS software myself, I’d quit in a heartbeat if someone told me I wasn’t allowed to make my own decisions about my own projects.

kaba0 5y ago

The ribbon bar is much more directed at discoverability for beginners, while the old design corresponds to features hidden behind menus under menus. So you being a sporadic user would (should) fare better with the Ribbon bar, it’s just probably that you remember the older version and change is painful.

laumars 5y ago
It’s not the change that’s the issue. It’s the lack of context for what icons do without clicking them. Text offers that context. But maybe the ribbon wasn’t the best example of my earlier point about the UI needs of sporadic users vs regular users. Or maybe it illustrates the point really we’ll but the context should be casual users vs power users rather than the frequency of usage?

jrm4 5y ago

If only there were a way to let Bob use what Bob likes and Bev use what Bev likes? Like giving people options? Like setting up a nice default, but also providing a path for individuals who want to change things in a meaningful way if they choose? I'm sorry, but it's REALLY hard to not be snarky about this. Apple has absolutely suckered the world into thinking that "nice default interface" and "ability to change your interface" are somehow zero-sum, and there is no reason for this to be the case. This deficient thinking has even wormed it's way into Linux, look at the current direction of GNOME. Sigh.

laumars 5y ago
I don’t have an issue with Linux DEs behaving like this because you have the freedom to install other WM and DEs.
- jrm4 5y ago
  I have a problem with GNOME specifically because it changed courses so drastically; it was open and friendly and then by GNOME 3 decided not to be. Bit of a bait-and-switch in my opinion.
  - laumars 5y ago
    Project authors need to have the ability to own the project that author if there’s any hope of it growing and evolving with the times. We might not always agree with the leadership in a particular project but as like as it is open source that’s not a problem as anyone can then fork it and add their own vision to the fork. Which is precisely what happened with GNOME. As an author of FOSS software myself, I’d quit in a heartbeat if someone told me I wasn’t allowed to make my own decisions about my own projects.