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>You seem to have confused iOS devices with Macs. I do not think I did. See above ... "I mean if one owns computer/iphone ... " >Macs can run another OS by de

>You seem to have confused iOS devices with Macs. I do not think I did. See above ... "I mean if one owns computer/iphone ... " >Macs can run another OS by design. If you are talking about previous models, to the certain degree yes except GPUs if I am not mistaken. But current M1 Mac as far as I understand it doesn't boot anything else unless it boots first from the internal storage and only then "external OS loader" which should be authorized too at least once by Apple. You can say that "Macs can run another OS by design." but design in which they authorize anything while do not provide full specs of HW interfaces for "another OS" I can't call so.

simonh 5y ago
That's simply not true. Apple allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon Macs without a jailbreak. This is according to the Asahi Linux docs.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Strange, T1 didn’t.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    Also not true. Someone just needed to write Linux drivers for that hardware.
    - saagarjha 5y ago
      No, Apple’s security coprocessors were not designed to be unlocked (but now can, via checkra1n).
      - GeekyBear 5y ago
        The thing that initially kept Linux from installing on those Macs was the lack of a driver for the SSD controller which is located on that T1/T2 chip. https://t2linux.org/ https://t2linux.org/
        saagarjha 5y ago
        Developing a SSD driver does not require unlocking the device, though.
        GeekyBear 5y ago
        We're talking about the ability to install Linux on the hardware. The drivers to do so exist now.
  - simonh 5y ago
    I think that's understandable, it's primarily a security chip so if you're ever going to lock anything down, that would be it. OK, from a purist perspective that's arguable, but I think it's also arguable allowing unsigned code would make it less secure. Anyway you can still run another OS on a Mac with a T1.
- lovelyviking 5y ago
  >That's simply not true. "Strictly speaking, the things can boot off of DFU (USB device mode) too, but to make that useful for regular boot you need to ask Apple, as currently you cannot boot a normal OS like that as far as I know, only their signed restore bundles (which is how you fix an M1 Mac if you wipe the SSD)." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26116017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26116017)
GeekyBear 5y ago
>design in which they authorize anything while do not provide full specs of HW interfaces for "another OS" I can't call so When did Intel release the full specs for the hidden OS that runs on the Management Engine in x86 chips? >[Intel] processors are running a closed-source variation of the open-source MINIX 3. We don't know exactly what version or how it's been modified since we don't have the source code. We do know that with it there Neither Linux nor any other operating system have final control of the x86 platform. It can reimage your computer's firmware even if it's powered off. Let me repeat that. If your computer is "off" but still plugged in, MINIX can still potentially change your computer's fundamental settings. https://www.zdnet.com/article/minix-intels-hidden-in-chip-operating-system/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/minix-intels-hidden-in-chip-op...
lovelyviking 5y ago
>You seem to have confused iOS devices with Macs. "macOS on ARM is very clearly a descendant of the way iOS works. It's just macOS userspace on top of an ARM XNU kernel, which was already a thing. The way the boot process works, etc. is clearly iOS plus their new fancy Boot Policy stuff for supporting multiple OSes and custom kernels." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28181976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28181976 I think after M1 it will be more and more confusing to see them too much separately.

simonh 5y ago

That's simply not true. Apple allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon Macs without a jailbreak. This is according to the Asahi Linux docs.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Strange, T1 didn’t.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  Also not true. Someone just needed to write Linux drivers for that hardware.
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    No, Apple’s security coprocessors were not designed to be unlocked (but now can, via checkra1n).
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      The thing that initially kept Linux from installing on those Macs was the lack of a driver for the SSD controller which is located on that T1/T2 chip. https://t2linux.org/ https://t2linux.org/
      - saagarjha 5y ago
        Developing a SSD driver does not require unlocking the device, though.
        GeekyBear 5y ago
        We're talking about the ability to install Linux on the hardware. The drivers to do so exist now.
- simonh 5y ago
  I think that's understandable, it's primarily a security chip so if you're ever going to lock anything down, that would be it. OK, from a purist perspective that's arguable, but I think it's also arguable allowing unsigned code would make it less secure. Anyway you can still run another OS on a Mac with a T1.
lovelyviking 5y ago
>That's simply not true. "Strictly speaking, the things can boot off of DFU (USB device mode) too, but to make that useful for regular boot you need to ask Apple, as currently you cannot boot a normal OS like that as far as I know, only their signed restore bundles (which is how you fix an M1 Mac if you wipe the SSD)." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26116017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26116017)

GeekyBear 5y ago

>design in which they authorize anything while do not provide full specs of HW interfaces for "another OS" I can't call so When did Intel release the full specs for the hidden OS that runs on the Management Engine in x86 chips? >[Intel] processors are running a closed-source variation of the open-source MINIX 3. We don't know exactly what version or how it's been modified since we don't have the source code. We do know that with it there Neither Linux nor any other operating system have final control of the x86 platform. It can reimage your computer's firmware even if it's powered off. Let me repeat that. If your computer is "off" but still plugged in, MINIX can still potentially change your computer's fundamental settings. https://www.zdnet.com/article/minix-intels-hidden-in-chip-operating-system/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/minix-intels-hidden-in-chip-op...

lovelyviking 5y ago

>You seem to have confused iOS devices with Macs. "macOS on ARM is very clearly a descendant of the way iOS works. It's just macOS userspace on top of an ARM XNU kernel, which was already a thing. The way the boot process works, etc. is clearly iOS plus their new fancy Boot Policy stuff for supporting multiple OSes and custom kernels." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28181976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28181976 I think after M1 it will be more and more confusing to see them too much separately.