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Flash was a nightmare on mobile and made pretty much half of the internet unusable on a smartphone (yes, half. Remember those menus in flash?). It was also inde

by aspyct 5y ago

Flash was a nightmare on mobile and made pretty much half of the internet unusable on a smartphone (yes, half. Remember those menus in flash?). It was also indeed full of security flaws that Adobe was suuuper slow to patch, if at all. Eye candy was their priority, not the web's wellbeing.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
>Eye candy was their priority, not the web's wellbeing. It was very easy to make stuff on it it was developer and artist friendly (still has lots of cool stuff that doesn't exist), it was a standard, but performance wise it sucked, and I would find it interesting for you to tell me what "web wellbeing" is. I would say that any analytics, advertising, and (my most controversial opinion) javascript is bad for web wellbeing. Every issue you leveraged against flash is the same with javascript.
- aspyct 5y ago
  I didn't say we're making good use of javascript either...
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Should we ban it?
    - noduerme 5y ago
      I think Apple's end goal in ten years is to ban browsers in general. They're just a way for people to get content without paying Apple for it.
noduerme 5y ago
The way poorly written JS clogs up web pages is worse than Flash ever was. Flash didn't have access to the DOM, except to send messages. Pages now are slower and heavier than ever. And back in 2010 or so, when Flash plugin was still available in beta on iOS and Android, but was declared "too slow" or too heavy on the battery, I wrote an extremely fast-for-the-time <canvas> based screen graph to do some side by side comparisons of manipulating sprites, animating vectors, masking touch areas, blitting some basic particles, etc. Javascript performance was not even close to Flash performance in an iPhone. It really has never gotten close, even with much faster processors and with v8, to replicating on canvas what Flash was doing. Only via WebGL has it become possible to get mobile graphics performance in the browser now resembling what Flash could do in 2010. So the performance complaint was, as far as I'm aware, a lie. The security complaints were, indeed, legitimate; and it's true that Adobe sucked at patching them, and Flash was a dangerous point of failure for corporate networks. That being said, it would have been a lot better if Adobe and Apple could have come to an arrangement to base a standard off of it. Instead what we have is a million workarounds to achieve the same effect, and we still have a huge amount of terrible, web-choking code all over the place. It's just in untyped JS, which is worse. Bad code is always bad code. At least with Flash you could kill the process without killing the page.
- aspyct 5y ago
  I didn't say we're making good use of javascript either...

by aspyct 5y ago

GhettoComputers 5y ago

>Eye candy was their priority, not the web's wellbeing. It was very easy to make stuff on it it was developer and artist friendly (still has lots of cool stuff that doesn't exist), it was a standard, but performance wise it sucked, and I would find it interesting for you to tell me what "web wellbeing" is. I would say that any analytics, advertising, and (my most controversial opinion) javascript is bad for web wellbeing. Every issue you leveraged against flash is the same with javascript.

aspyct 5y ago
I didn't say we're making good use of javascript either...
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Should we ban it?
  - noduerme 5y ago
    I think Apple's end goal in ten years is to ban browsers in general. They're just a way for people to get content without paying Apple for it.

noduerme 5y ago

The way poorly written JS clogs up web pages is worse than Flash ever was. Flash didn't have access to the DOM, except to send messages. Pages now are slower and heavier than ever. And back in 2010 or so, when Flash plugin was still available in beta on iOS and Android, but was declared "too slow" or too heavy on the battery, I wrote an extremely fast-for-the-time <canvas> based screen graph to do some side by side comparisons of manipulating sprites, animating vectors, masking touch areas, blitting some basic particles, etc. Javascript performance was not even close to Flash performance in an iPhone. It really has never gotten close, even with much faster processors and with v8, to replicating on canvas what Flash was doing. Only via WebGL has it become possible to get mobile graphics performance in the browser now resembling what Flash could do in 2010. So the performance complaint was, as far as I'm aware, a lie. The security complaints were, indeed, legitimate; and it's true that Adobe sucked at patching them, and Flash was a dangerous point of failure for corporate networks. That being said, it would have been a lot better if Adobe and Apple could have come to an arrangement to base a standard off of it. Instead what we have is a million workarounds to achieve the same effect, and we still have a huge amount of terrible, web-choking code all over the place. It's just in untyped JS, which is worse. Bad code is always bad code. At least with Flash you could kill the process without killing the page.

aspyct 5y ago
I didn't say we're making good use of javascript either...