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Isn’t it cynicism (or idealism) just a survival strategy which happens because of your experiences? I know I tend to be more cynical than most of my peers but I

Isn’t it cynicism (or idealism) just a survival strategy which happens because of your experiences? I know I tend to be more cynical than most of my peers but I always attributed that to growing up in poverty unlike them. Sometimes it seems a lot of people think others can apply their way of thinking or seeing the world and it will make their life instantly better. But I don’t think it can happen if they don’t live in the right context.

moksly 5y ago
That is a really sad outlook to me. After decades in Enterprise IT, many in the public sector of Scandinavia you’d probably expect me to be a cynic, and if you go through my post history you’ll see very recent examples of what looks like it, but I’m actually always rather optimistic. The healthy survival strategy in a world of shit isn’t to give up, it’s to fight on and hope for the best. It’s to come to the conclusion, that even though the road to hell is paved with good intentions, the fact that there are good intentions mean that the people actually wanted to succeed. So while I’m very pessimistic, I’m also experienced enough to know that everyone is working for a better world. In all my decades of working close to the political leadership and the top level decision makers, I can’t remember once meeting someone who wasn’t working for what they believed to be a better tomorrow. Maybe that’s a uniquely Danish trait, but I doubt it. What that good is, isn’t always what you or I would consider good, but my point is that even very evil decision makers are working for what they think is right. The moment you become a cynic is the moment you lose your connection and with it, your ability to impact things. Because a manager who has the wrong view of your corporate culture, isn’t going to change unless you inspire them to be better and that applies to everyone. Of course it’s hard to be optimistic as well. 98% or something like it of public IT system implementations fail to some extend, and if you expect them to succeed then I imagine it’ll be quite soul crushing. The key, to me at least, is to not let your pessimism turn into cynicism, because you don’t want to be the constant no-sayer either, you want to make your points and reservations clear, but then roll with the decision that gets made.
- louhike 5y ago
  I might be wrong but it seems to me you're mixing cynicism and pessimism. With cynicism you distrust other intentions, but you can still fight to improve your situation or the situation of others.
- iamacyborg 5y ago
  > everyone is working for a better world My inner cynic is howling at this statement.
  - Ygg2 5y ago
    It's true in a sense. Everyone is working on a better world. For themselves.
    - iamacyborg 5y ago
      Now that is a statement I can get behind.
      - oblio 5y ago
        If you get behind him you're probably making his world worse, though, by crowding him :-p
        Ygg2 5y ago
        Unless my better world is one in which more people are better off.
    - v-erne 5y ago
      That would be a great slogan for capitalism
  - circlefavshape 5y ago
    A good friend of mine is a very senior civil servant in Ireland, and he says similar - most politicians are smart people sincerely trying to make the world a better place. I believe him. What's the alternative? Believing that all the world's problems would be fixed if only someone good-hearted would attempt to solve them?
rackjack 5y ago
Astute observation. It is common for people to live life with "maps" that worked well early on but now work very poorly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation
The_Colonel 5y ago
I can see how cynicism is a valid strategy in certain contexts, but both you and author don't live in that situation anymore and a different strategy might be optimal in the respective contexts. I guess the main thing here is to become aware through inspection of your current strategy and evaluate if it needs to be adjusted.
goodpoint 5y ago
> Isn’t it cynicism (or idealism) just a survival strategy which happens because of your experiences? Not at all. You are confusing coping mechanisms with (healthy) survival strategies. In many societies the absence of empathy and mutual aid is one of the biggest contributors to unhappiness. And it's not correlated with poverty. (I'm not using the word "cynicism" because is very poorly defined and constantly misused in this thread.)
KarlKemp 5y ago
The cynicism we see is a product more of the boredom of an upbringing in white suburban affluence. Some peoples’ lives in the past half-century were devoid of the struggles of other times and places. Lacking any contrast for anchoring, that homogeneity is interpreted as “everything is terrible” rather than “everything is fine”. Throw in a bit of aimless masculinity or status anxiety, and people start believing a bit of paintball-but-with-real-guns could fill that craving that’s been bothering them. Others express their total disdain of even the concept of trust by jumping on the cryptocurrency bandwagon, or by believing TOR can do more for them than robust civil rights legislation. It’s all just aspects of the same sentiment, which is why there’s so much overlap.

moksly 5y ago

That is a really sad outlook to me. After decades in Enterprise IT, many in the public sector of Scandinavia you’d probably expect me to be a cynic, and if you go through my post history you’ll see very recent examples of what looks like it, but I’m actually always rather optimistic. The healthy survival strategy in a world of shit isn’t to give up, it’s to fight on and hope for the best. It’s to come to the conclusion, that even though the road to hell is paved with good intentions, the fact that there are good intentions mean that the people actually wanted to succeed. So while I’m very pessimistic, I’m also experienced enough to know that everyone is working for a better world. In all my decades of working close to the political leadership and the top level decision makers, I can’t remember once meeting someone who wasn’t working for what they believed to be a better tomorrow. Maybe that’s a uniquely Danish trait, but I doubt it. What that good is, isn’t always what you or I would consider good, but my point is that even very evil decision makers are working for what they think is right. The moment you become a cynic is the moment you lose your connection and with it, your ability to impact things. Because a manager who has the wrong view of your corporate culture, isn’t going to change unless you inspire them to be better and that applies to everyone. Of course it’s hard to be optimistic as well. 98% or something like it of public IT system implementations fail to some extend, and if you expect them to succeed then I imagine it’ll be quite soul crushing. The key, to me at least, is to not let your pessimism turn into cynicism, because you don’t want to be the constant no-sayer either, you want to make your points and reservations clear, but then roll with the decision that gets made.

louhike 5y ago
I might be wrong but it seems to me you're mixing cynicism and pessimism. With cynicism you distrust other intentions, but you can still fight to improve your situation or the situation of others.
iamacyborg 5y ago
> everyone is working for a better world My inner cynic is howling at this statement.
- Ygg2 5y ago
  It's true in a sense. Everyone is working on a better world. For themselves.
  - iamacyborg 5y ago
    Now that is a statement I can get behind.
    - oblio 5y ago
      If you get behind him you're probably making his world worse, though, by crowding him :-p
      - Ygg2 5y ago
        Unless my better world is one in which more people are better off.
  - v-erne 5y ago
    That would be a great slogan for capitalism
- circlefavshape 5y ago
  A good friend of mine is a very senior civil servant in Ireland, and he says similar - most politicians are smart people sincerely trying to make the world a better place. I believe him. What's the alternative? Believing that all the world's problems would be fixed if only someone good-hearted would attempt to solve them?

rackjack 5y ago

Astute observation. It is common for people to live life with "maps" that worked well early on but now work very poorly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation

The_Colonel 5y ago

I can see how cynicism is a valid strategy in certain contexts, but both you and author don't live in that situation anymore and a different strategy might be optimal in the respective contexts. I guess the main thing here is to become aware through inspection of your current strategy and evaluate if it needs to be adjusted.

goodpoint 5y ago

> Isn’t it cynicism (or idealism) just a survival strategy which happens because of your experiences? Not at all. You are confusing coping mechanisms with (healthy) survival strategies. In many societies the absence of empathy and mutual aid is one of the biggest contributors to unhappiness. And it's not correlated with poverty. (I'm not using the word "cynicism" because is very poorly defined and constantly misused in this thread.)

KarlKemp 5y ago

The cynicism we see is a product more of the boredom of an upbringing in white suburban affluence. Some peoples’ lives in the past half-century were devoid of the struggles of other times and places. Lacking any contrast for anchoring, that homogeneity is interpreted as “everything is terrible” rather than “everything is fine”. Throw in a bit of aimless masculinity or status anxiety, and people start believing a bit of paintball-but-with-real-guns could fill that craving that’s been bothering them. Others express their total disdain of even the concept of trust by jumping on the cryptocurrency bandwagon, or by believing TOR can do more for them than robust civil rights legislation. It’s all just aspects of the same sentiment, which is why there’s so much overlap.