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>What monthly fees of this nature are required to use other Apple products? Apple conveniently disallows people from making local backups encrypted with your o

>What monthly fees of this nature are required to use other Apple products? Apple conveniently disallows people from making local backups encrypted with your own key, which means in reality you need to pay a monthly fee to store them on iCloud.

thesmok 5y ago
I'm backing up my iPhone to a Mac and these backups are encrypted with a password. And then I'm backing up that Mac to a hard drive, and those backups are encrypted with a password as well. All using standard Apple software. If I wanted to back up into iCloud I would have to pay, which is fair. Instead, I'm using my own hard drive.
ceejayoz 5y ago
That’s just an outright lie, though. There’s Time Machine: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/keep-your-time-machine-backup-disk-secure-mh21241/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/keep-your-time-mach... Or you can run any number of third party backup software.
- hn_throwaway_69 5y ago
  They could be referring to iPhone, couldn't they? Which to my knowledge doesn't have Time Machine, a macOS feature. I think it's best not to say something is a "lie" unless you have a strong basis for it, let alone asserting it is a "outright lie". A lie is an intentionally false statement. It involves an intention to deceive. It's highly unlikely that someone on Hacker News would set out to intentionally mislead people who are familiar with the subject-matter and who know how to fact check. At best they are "wrong", "misinformed" or "mistaken". Although, as said in the first paragraph, I suspect you're actually at cross-purposes with each other.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Others in the thread have shown the corresponding iOS local backup options. I don’t see much difference between “confidently stated but provably wrong in seconds via Google” and a lie.
    - hn_throwaway_69 5y ago
      That's not what you said. You claimed it was a lie referring to Time Machine, not local backup options on iOS. macOS backup solutions are pretty much irrelevant, because it's obvious you can backup macOS using any tool you like, it's a desktop operating system where the user can run binaries with administrator privileges, unlike iOS. The compelling inference is they were talking about iOS, making Time Machine irrelevant to the discussion. And there is a significant difference between offering an ill-informed opinion and lying. One can be reckless or negligent, but not a liar. To be a liar, they need to positively know they are wrong but post it anyway. I was hoping you'd say it was simply used for rhetorical effect. I must say, I'm a little disappointed you're maintaining your position. Sometimes, it's best just to assume good faith.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        > You claimed it was a lie referring to Time Machine, not local backup options on iOS. Like I said, others had already covered the iOS side of things. There are no Apple devices for which the statement is true, and the certainty of "Apple conveniently disallows people from making local backups encrypted with your own key" makes me quite comfortable considering it to be a dishonest statement rather than merely ignorant. Similar to "vaccines don't work"; whether it's out of ignorance or maliciousness, it's a lie. (Further complicating matters: telling lies even results in believing them to be truthful over time; it's still a lie! https://www.brandeis.edu/now/2018/november/lying-old-gutchess.html https://www.brandeis.edu/now/2018/november/lying-old-gutches...)
- brokenmachine 5y ago
  Obviously I'm not an Apple customer, but from reading hackernews comments when the M1 came out, I was reading people discussing that you couldn't do that. Or maybe I misunderstood the details but they were definitely complaining about backup methods for encrypted laptops. I would not trust Apple with all my data, which is essentially what you're doing if they have the key. Can you do a full-disk encrypted backup of your drive using only your own keys and not sending any data back to Apple? If you can, then I'm wrong. But "outright lie" is an uncharitable interpretation of my error. Lol, downvoted with no answers. Apple victims are a thin-skinned bunch.

thesmok 5y ago

I'm backing up my iPhone to a Mac and these backups are encrypted with a password. And then I'm backing up that Mac to a hard drive, and those backups are encrypted with a password as well. All using standard Apple software. If I wanted to back up into iCloud I would have to pay, which is fair. Instead, I'm using my own hard drive.

ceejayoz 5y ago

That’s just an outright lie, though. There’s Time Machine: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/keep-your-time-machine-backup-disk-secure-mh21241/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/keep-your-time-mach... Or you can run any number of third party backup software.

hn_throwaway_69 5y ago
They could be referring to iPhone, couldn't they? Which to my knowledge doesn't have Time Machine, a macOS feature. I think it's best not to say something is a "lie" unless you have a strong basis for it, let alone asserting it is a "outright lie". A lie is an intentionally false statement. It involves an intention to deceive. It's highly unlikely that someone on Hacker News would set out to intentionally mislead people who are familiar with the subject-matter and who know how to fact check. At best they are "wrong", "misinformed" or "mistaken". Although, as said in the first paragraph, I suspect you're actually at cross-purposes with each other.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Others in the thread have shown the corresponding iOS local backup options. I don’t see much difference between “confidently stated but provably wrong in seconds via Google” and a lie.
  - hn_throwaway_69 5y ago
    That's not what you said. You claimed it was a lie referring to Time Machine, not local backup options on iOS. macOS backup solutions are pretty much irrelevant, because it's obvious you can backup macOS using any tool you like, it's a desktop operating system where the user can run binaries with administrator privileges, unlike iOS. The compelling inference is they were talking about iOS, making Time Machine irrelevant to the discussion. And there is a significant difference between offering an ill-informed opinion and lying. One can be reckless or negligent, but not a liar. To be a liar, they need to positively know they are wrong but post it anyway. I was hoping you'd say it was simply used for rhetorical effect. I must say, I'm a little disappointed you're maintaining your position. Sometimes, it's best just to assume good faith.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      > You claimed it was a lie referring to Time Machine, not local backup options on iOS. Like I said, others had already covered the iOS side of things. There are no Apple devices for which the statement is true, and the certainty of "Apple conveniently disallows people from making local backups encrypted with your own key" makes me quite comfortable considering it to be a dishonest statement rather than merely ignorant. Similar to "vaccines don't work"; whether it's out of ignorance or maliciousness, it's a lie. (Further complicating matters: telling lies even results in believing them to be truthful over time; it's still a lie! https://www.brandeis.edu/now/2018/november/lying-old-gutchess.html https://www.brandeis.edu/now/2018/november/lying-old-gutches...)
brokenmachine 5y ago
Obviously I'm not an Apple customer, but from reading hackernews comments when the M1 came out, I was reading people discussing that you couldn't do that. Or maybe I misunderstood the details but they were definitely complaining about backup methods for encrypted laptops. I would not trust Apple with all my data, which is essentially what you're doing if they have the key. Can you do a full-disk encrypted backup of your drive using only your own keys and not sending any data back to Apple? If you can, then I'm wrong. But "outright lie" is an uncharitable interpretation of my error. Lol, downvoted with no answers. Apple victims are a thin-skinned bunch.