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> The sidewalk is public space. Does the public give away free real estate to the restaurant, to be used to generate revenue by the square foot? If the restaura
by imgabe 5y ago
> The sidewalk is public space. Does the public give away free real estate to the restaurant, to be used to generate revenue by the square foot? If the restaurant wants outdoor dining, they can build it on their own property. Perhaps the city should at least charge rent (in non-pandemic times).
Sometimes. It depends on the city. Sometimes the landowner owns the sidewalk, or at least has responsibility for it. If you are responsible for cleaning the sidewalk and assume liability if someone slips and falls on it, why not also have the ability to use it? I'm not sure where SF lands on this.
> Cities don't want loud drunk people on sidewalks, i.e., a bar scene on the sidewalk. Public alcohol consumption is generally banned in most places in the US, afaik.
Sidewalk cafes are not nightclubs. There's a difference between people sitting at a table and having a bottle of wine with a meal vs. a frat party. I don't think anyone is proposing a nightclub or bar scene on the sidewalk. These are people sitting at tables eating dinner.
> It obstructs sidewalks, which have an important purpose and were built to a certain capacity. Analogously, should we allow dining in the street, blocking a lane of traffic (structures could be built that would shield patrons from the street). Possibly, there was less foot traffic during the pandemic so the problem wasn't as noticeable.
It sounds like they're built in parking spaces, which are obviously not on the sidewalk or in the street. It's a space that would otherwise be obstructed with a parked car.
> Laws that apply to one person apply to every restaurant in the city. Maybe the temporary pandemic situation limited how many and how did it, and we don't want every restaurant building outdoor dining on the sidewalk.
Why not? It seems unlikely that every single restaurant would, but it also seems like people like eating outdoors. So, why not?
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago> I don't think anyone is proposing a nightclub or bar scene on the sidewalk. These are people sitting at tables eating dinner. I'm generally in favor of all this stuff. Neverthless, I did see an article in either The Guardian about complaints from residents in London (I think) regarding the expansion of sidewalk dining because it tends to up being not "just people sitting at tables eating dinner". Then there's this NYT recently about similar questions in NYC: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/nyregion/outdoor-dining-near-me-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/nyregion/outdoor-dining-n...
- llampx 5y agoWhere I live, restaurants have to be quiet after past 10pm both indoors and outdoors if they have outdoor tables for example on the sidewalk or terrace. I've been told off for talking too loudly in a group of 4 when sitting outside so a bigger group of loudmouth drunks would certainly be thrown out or told to come indoors. I think this is a non-issue. Not to mention that most restaurants like this are anyway in dense neighborhoods which have a higher noise floor.
- Talanes 5y ago>Sidewalk cafes are not nightclubs. There's a difference between people sitting at a table and having a bottle of wine with a meal vs. a frat party. I don't think anyone is proposing a nightclub or bar scene on the sidewalk. These are people sitting at tables eating dinner. My neighborhood has a lot more bars with parklets than restaurants with parklets.