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Compared to European cities (except parts of London or Frankfurt etc.), US cities have always felt dead to me. Even Chicago and New York. There's previous few p

by zwaps 5y ago

Compared to European cities (except parts of London or Frankfurt etc.), US cities have always felt dead to me. Even Chicago and New York. There's previous few places in these cities where one can sit outside somewhere interesting. Specifically, they exist in such a low concentration that no real public "life" happens, rather, life happens beyond closed doors of establishments. Contrast this with cities in Europe where people just hang out, like for free, all around the town at rivers, parks, bridges and have a good time. It always feels like European cities place a premium on such public places, on the idea that a good time could be had without going to a commercial venue. I guess this is why US cities feel weird to me... somehow compartmentalized and commercialized, even oppressive. I realize you are not supposed to walk "around town" in the US. Rather, you pick a target (Bar, Restaurant) and then go drive there. And that's fine. I also know public consumption is frowned upon. But look at people sitting at the Seine or Canal St. Martin in Paris on a summer evening... sharing spaces between open-air restaurants, sidewalks and just public spots. It's a far cry from "rowdy drunkenness" that US Americans frequently imagine, and (to me), something is just missing without this public life. And even more extreme version of the US model can be seen in newer parts of rapidly growing cities like Dubai and many new developments in Istanbul and the like: Here, the city amounts to a system of isolated complexes, separated by highways or roads and with little walkability. Residential areas are also often physically shut off from the public. The closest you get to a normal space is a Mall. I find just being there makes me depressed. Other's don't mind at all. Weird. Edit: More of what I mean in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbxQHjcctZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbxQHjcctZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbxQHjcctZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbxQHjcctZk

davidgay 5y ago
> Contrast this with cities in Europe where people just hang out, like for free, all around the town at rivers, parks, bridges and have a good time. It always feels like European cities place a premium on such public places, on the idea that a good time could be had without going to a commercial venue. Except that one of the nice things in European parks is that they have outdoor cafes, bars, food sellers, etc, i.e., commercial venues. I sometimes get the impression that the US doesn't think public parks should have any commercial elements, thus contributing to their lack of life...
jollybean 5y ago
US 'looks dead' but people are indoors. You are right however, everything is built for the wrong kind of density.
wildrhythms 5y ago
The point is to remove and replace all forms of public 'hang out' space with private space in which wealthy land owners can monetize the act of hanging out, and utilize ancient trespass laws to kick out anyone not paying.
- supertrope 5y ago
  I sympathize with the point you’re making but public spaces suffer from adverse selection. Private spaces reject drug abusers and the homeless. Public spaces lack the legal authority, political will, or resources to ban the badly behaved. This is why we can’t have nice things like public restrooms or popularization of mass transit.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    If that was actually some sort of universal, which I would dispute, you'd still have to add an explanation how there could be parts of the world where this is not a problem (i.e. they have public spaces with public restrooms that you can access with public transit).
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    > Public spaces lack the legal authority, political will, or resources to ban the badly behaved. Is this US-specific? What prevents policing public spaces? Also, many toilets in Europe charge a fee, which both allows for better maintenance, and keeps out casual visitors; a PITA but keeps them clean and free of much antisocial behaviour, but more practical in high-traffic areas, not so much in quieter areas - though a lot of the problems seems to be in high-traffic urban areas.

by zwaps 5y ago

davidgay 5y ago

> Contrast this with cities in Europe where people just hang out, like for free, all around the town at rivers, parks, bridges and have a good time. It always feels like European cities place a premium on such public places, on the idea that a good time could be had without going to a commercial venue. Except that one of the nice things in European parks is that they have outdoor cafes, bars, food sellers, etc, i.e., commercial venues. I sometimes get the impression that the US doesn't think public parks should have any commercial elements, thus contributing to their lack of life...

jollybean 5y ago

US 'looks dead' but people are indoors. You are right however, everything is built for the wrong kind of density.

wildrhythms 5y ago

The point is to remove and replace all forms of public 'hang out' space with private space in which wealthy land owners can monetize the act of hanging out, and utilize ancient trespass laws to kick out anyone not paying.

supertrope 5y ago
I sympathize with the point you’re making but public spaces suffer from adverse selection. Private spaces reject drug abusers and the homeless. Public spaces lack the legal authority, political will, or resources to ban the badly behaved. This is why we can’t have nice things like public restrooms or popularization of mass transit.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  If that was actually some sort of universal, which I would dispute, you'd still have to add an explanation how there could be parts of the world where this is not a problem (i.e. they have public spaces with public restrooms that you can access with public transit).
- Chris2048 5y ago
  > Public spaces lack the legal authority, political will, or resources to ban the badly behaved. Is this US-specific? What prevents policing public spaces? Also, many toilets in Europe charge a fee, which both allows for better maintenance, and keeps out casual visitors; a PITA but keeps them clean and free of much antisocial behaviour, but more practical in high-traffic areas, not so much in quieter areas - though a lot of the problems seems to be in high-traffic urban areas.