7 ms·

That would not be legal afaik. Whereas shorting + publishing probably is legal.

Jerrrry 5y ago
Code is law. If your private key was made using a compromised RNG, and I find and derive the key, I am just as ethically, morally, and legally entitled to invoke whatever function I please. After all, you can't make it illegal for people to yell prime numbers. That is all stealing bitcoin amounts to, is expression/possession of a very specific set of numbers, and a system that incentivises hearing, verifying, and repeating those numbers.
- heyitsguay 5y ago
  Clearly, we must augment these computational systems with a social mechanism by which experts on system rules can interpret their intent and make judgements when things go awry. To make it fair when there's a problem, we could even let each party have their own rule experts make their cases before an impartial third party rule expert!
- lxgr 5y ago
  Every message you can send on the internet is "just numbers" at the lowest layer. Aren‘t you essentially arguing that it‘s somehow inherently impossible to commit crimes using telecommunication networks?
  - Jerrrry 5y ago
    yes. I think it is actually an extension of the first amendment, a more admitted liberal thought.
- tomc1985 5y ago
  Given that humans seem incapable of writing bug-free code, 'code is law' seems like a power grab by the intellectually-inclined to exploit more germaine users without end. So perhaps it is better to think of code as 'intent'.
  - trevyn 5y ago
    How about: Code is more explicit and reliable than existing law, so it makes sense to try and make future law out of code. Making graft visible is a feature, not a bug.
    - meheleventyone 5y ago
      Sounds more like a misunderstanding of why there are differences between code and law. Also code more reliable, unless you have a bug and someone siphons off millions of dollars of your customers money, irretrievably?
      - trevyn 5y ago
        That’s also a feature. I understand if you don’t see it that way.
        meheleventyone 5y ago
        Not the first time someone's tried to sell a bug to me as a feature! But it is the first time someone's done it as an evidence free assertion.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - lxgr 5y ago
      Even in computer programming, it makes sense to use the language most suitable to solve the problem at hand. Most humans don't speak programming languages. Yes, you probably could formulate an employment contract in Rust – just like you could write a graphics driver in Rockstar [1]. And yes, many legal systems in the world are slow, inefficient, and prone to be gamed by the wealthy and powerful. I'd really rather we don't add a second layer of indirection and gatekeeping on top of or beneath that. [1] https://codewithrockstar.com/ https://codewithrockstar.com/
      - 5y ago
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  > After all, you can't make it illegal for people to yell prime numbers. ... actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number#Illegal_primes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number#Illegal_primes
- post-it 5y ago
  > ethically, morally, and legally Idk about your morals or ethics but the "internet crime isn't real crime!" bandwagon crashed decades ago. > After all, you can't make it illegal for people to yell prime numbers. Sure you can. Michelle Carter[0] just digitally transmitted some prime numbers. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michelle-carter-found-guilty-encouraging-boyfriend-s-suicide-text-messages-n773306 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michelle-carter-found-g...
  - bb88 5y ago
    > Idk about your morals or ethics but the "internet crime isn't real crime!" bandwagon crashed decades ago. I personally can't tell the difference between any given cryptocurrency and a gold brick scam in the first place. It's not to say you're wrong, but to me the fix is regulating cryptocurrencies, not complaining that someone outsmarted an algorithm that controls millions of dollars of tokens in an unregulated market. Further, should the government step in and prosecute crimes in said unregulated market? Who's to say what a crime is or whether it's just a feature of the software? If crypto currency is nothing but a gold brick scam, why should they exactly? > Sure you can. Michelle Carter[0] just digitally transmitted some prime numbers. So Michelle Carter transmitted 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17 ....? I don't think that's what she was convicted of. But at the same point it seems weird that solving math problems online would somehow be made illegal. Now using said math problems to achieve ill gotten gains from a bank, would clearly be.

Code is law. If your private key was made using a compromised RNG, and I find and derive the key, I am just as ethically, morally, and legally entitled to invoke whatever function I please. After all, you can't make it illegal for people to yell prime numbers. That is all stealing bitcoin amounts to, is expression/possession of a very specific set of numbers, and a system that incentivises hearing, verifying, and repeating those numbers.

heyitsguay 5y ago
Clearly, we must augment these computational systems with a social mechanism by which experts on system rules can interpret their intent and make judgements when things go awry. To make it fair when there's a problem, we could even let each party have their own rule experts make their cases before an impartial third party rule expert!
lxgr 5y ago
Every message you can send on the internet is "just numbers" at the lowest layer. Aren‘t you essentially arguing that it‘s somehow inherently impossible to commit crimes using telecommunication networks?
- Jerrrry 5y ago
  yes. I think it is actually an extension of the first amendment, a more admitted liberal thought.
tomc1985 5y ago
Given that humans seem incapable of writing bug-free code, 'code is law' seems like a power grab by the intellectually-inclined to exploit more germaine users without end. So perhaps it is better to think of code as 'intent'.
- trevyn 5y ago
  How about: Code is more explicit and reliable than existing law, so it makes sense to try and make future law out of code. Making graft visible is a feature, not a bug.
  - meheleventyone 5y ago
    Sounds more like a misunderstanding of why there are differences between code and law. Also code more reliable, unless you have a bug and someone siphons off millions of dollars of your customers money, irretrievably?
    - trevyn 5y ago
      That’s also a feature. I understand if you don’t see it that way.
      - meheleventyone 5y ago
        Not the first time someone's tried to sell a bug to me as a feature! But it is the first time someone's done it as an evidence free assertion.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - lxgr 5y ago
    Even in computer programming, it makes sense to use the language most suitable to solve the problem at hand. Most humans don't speak programming languages. Yes, you probably could formulate an employment contract in Rust – just like you could write a graphics driver in Rockstar [1]. And yes, many legal systems in the world are slow, inefficient, and prone to be gamed by the wealthy and powerful. I'd really rather we don't add a second layer of indirection and gatekeeping on top of or beneath that. [1] https://codewithrockstar.com/ https://codewithrockstar.com/
    - 5y ago
pcthrowaway 5y ago
> After all, you can't make it illegal for people to yell prime numbers. ... actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number#Illegal_primes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number#Illegal_primes
post-it 5y ago
> ethically, morally, and legally Idk about your morals or ethics but the "internet crime isn't real crime!" bandwagon crashed decades ago. > After all, you can't make it illegal for people to yell prime numbers. Sure you can. Michelle Carter[0] just digitally transmitted some prime numbers. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michelle-carter-found-guilty-encouraging-boyfriend-s-suicide-text-messages-n773306 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michelle-carter-found-g...
- bb88 5y ago
  > Idk about your morals or ethics but the "internet crime isn't real crime!" bandwagon crashed decades ago. I personally can't tell the difference between any given cryptocurrency and a gold brick scam in the first place. It's not to say you're wrong, but to me the fix is regulating cryptocurrencies, not complaining that someone outsmarted an algorithm that controls millions of dollars of tokens in an unregulated market. Further, should the government step in and prosecute crimes in said unregulated market? Who's to say what a crime is or whether it's just a feature of the software? If crypto currency is nothing but a gold brick scam, why should they exactly? > Sure you can. Michelle Carter[0] just digitally transmitted some prime numbers. So Michelle Carter transmitted 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17 ....? I don't think that's what she was convicted of. But at the same point it seems weird that solving math problems online would somehow be made illegal. Now using said math problems to achieve ill gotten gains from a bank, would clearly be.